All of that said, understanding the vaccine from an evolutionary perspective is quite revealing. I am more concerned about the vaccine at that level than at an individual level.
Oh ok so you believe what you have been told about what it does and how it works.
You have no independent proof that this is what it does and how it works though do you?
We only so far have “studies” (I’ll use that term loosely) from the vax manufacturers about what the vax does and how safe and effective it is.
This used to be the case with statins…
Swine flu vaccine
In the UK almost half the population have had a least one experimental treatment. I find it quite astounding.
Could you elaborate on that?
As someone who obviously knows a lot more than I about what could happen with such a treatment I’d be fascinated to know your thoughts.
this is what I am sayin’ also, all the would be ‘scientists’ on this board think that it is cut and dry, this new gene coding therapy but it isn’t by a long shot cause NO ONE knows long term issues on what this stuff can and can not do to our cells. again, good bad ugly come into play but we have to wait and see.
and I tell ya’ll now, life and crap we inject into us with gene coding and more MIGHT decide to do whatever it wants and might retrigger in us or ??? again time.
I am not for or against at this point, it is a fascinating science being handled here but handle too fast and too reckless? Too iffy on long term issues the industry has no idea about yet? Just alot of what ifs coming around with new sciences and those darn words, gene coding and more…woof, no one likes those mostly HAHA
I live in a biotech area. I trust my contacts here with phds who do understand this well and actually work in the industry. Is it possible there is some unknown method that could cause damage? Sure. It hasn’t been around long enough to know everything.
No one in the industrie who understands this dit want to go to market.
In europe the farma companies refused, the European commission pushed it and signed off on a Hold Harmless agreement.
Reckless and incompetent.
I think they got away with it. We will see in the future.
I still going to accept the vax if I’m called for it.
Or buy a fake vax passport if the tide changes and evidence proves me wrong.
Any lawyer would advise a company that way.
Its a win win for the pharma companies… they have no liability if it all goes horribly wrong yet a huge upside in their share prices if their product doesn’t kill too many people…
And we still believe what they publish… hey ho…
Did we learn nothing from the statins fiasco… I guess not.
do we ever? as humans do we truly learn anything? think of our history of abuse, domination, cruelty, fanatic thinking and every single issue from genocide to plain ruin of this Earth and natural systems.
Nah, I don’t have to guess here Mark LOL
we don’t use swords, lynchings, arrows or clubbing anymore from old days…we have a ‘legal system’ to screw over the entire planet and its life on it. All about the legality of everything and who comes out ahead in the courts.
Pure insanity of it all. World is CHAOS. Strange we humans went this way when we could have gone in such a better path. (huh just thinking out loud on that one)
I am just concerned about the vaccine being too focused and therefore more easily becoming ineffective. I have heard it compared to an arms race in that, once we are have an effective way to fight it (this vaccine), the virus will then mutate to become more resistant to the vaccine, similar to what we see in antibiotic resistance. Now, this isn’t the virus being more intelligent than us or actually making conscious decisions. This is basic survival of the fittest and the process of natural selection at work as we know it to be.
However, not vaccinating is a luxury only some can afford. I have lost 2 family members, not from the same households, and had another with a child in the hospital. I have had a friend from elementary school end up in the hospital and many stories from friends about their family members that have passed or have ended up hospitalized. The one link between all of these individuals is that they are all considered to be in the minority in terms of ethnicity. I would like to know why this is happening but with racial tensions so high, no one wants to mention it. In my county, Hispanics represent about 50% of the population but almost 60% of the deaths. There are plenty of reasons this could be happening (do we make up a larger portion of the aged population? Is it more socioeconomic with a larger portion of individuals being unable to work from home ? Is it our tendency to have multi generational homes in which we care for our elderly in home, exposing them (or as child care)? Is there some genetic component? Some combination of all of these factors?). Until scientists can come back with a reason why (which cannot happen in a reasonable time frame) I consider vaccinations as necessary. If I was a conspiracy hypothesis type of person, I would have definitely gone off on a the-world-is-out-to-get-me line of thinking, before considering the possibility that there are reasonable explanations why certain ethnicities are hit harder than others. I understand the need to tip toe around these types of facts as to not want to imply that the only reason a person can take the non Vax approach is because they do not have as wide of an ethnic diverse group of acquaintances as others. It is really just a point of view and this is what we all need to do, analyze the risk versus reward from our personal perspective and for those close to us. Our data set is just shown to be wildly different and that is okay.
What helps is clear information, and unfortunately this title (“anti-vax” “lies” “myths”) says so much about the author’s a priori assumptions. So many folks who are pro-vaccine in general are cautious about the Covid ones, and as soon as someone skeptical gets called “anti-vax” you’ve effectively shut down discussion.
Open discussion and calm, clear-headed reviews data are the foundation for reasoned decision-making.
It really bothers me how people with actual questions are shut down and labeled. This pandemic is a way to teach science to massive groups of people who are actually interested in learning. Instead of, “don’t be an anti vaxxer” we should be looking to clarify what needs to be learned. And also, be able to admit what is not known. If this pandemic had started with an approach that stated what we know about viruses and then said, “we don’t know if any of this is true for this specific virus so we will take this approach UNTIL we learn more”, I don’t think people would have been so offended by the changing information.
Not unreasonably so and it’s for this exact reason that the likes of Robert F Kennedy Jr need to be called out for what they are.
Update, Felt bad the day after the second Moderna shot. Felt a little better the day after but took it easy. The following day I felt great. People here a getting rid of the masks and I am doing the same. It is common to see about 30% of people in stores without. This weekend when out to lunch several of the restaurant and bar workers were without masks so I never wore one to or from the table. I am so done with all of this.
From the point of view from someone who has lost 5 family members in the last year…Yes there is a risk with the vaccine. There is also a risk of contracting covid without the vaccine. The difference is, there is a positive risk for prevention to potential lifelong damage or death also associated with the vaccine that you are not given by refusing the vaccine. Might the vaccine kill you? Science is saying no. Might covid kill you? Science is saying yes.
This is why it is a personal decision. If I were younger and healthier and felt I could beat covid would I take the vaccine risk??? Maybe not, not in that situation so really can’t answer honestly.
What I do know is covid hasn’t been good to my family and it is real. Because of this I will respect its power and protect myself accordingly. Got the first shot 2 weeks ago and scheduled for the 2nd on the 21st. Typical sore arm is all so far.
I’m sorry for your loss. Losing 5 family members is traumatic. I lost my my mother on New Year’s Eve to Covid. I was lucky my father got treatment in time. I may be young, but I have 5 underlying conditions. I chose the vaccine to protect myself and others. There are risks. We don’t have longterm data, but we do have some data.
I have 2 acquaintances who had Covid (it wasn’t very serious). Nothing in my family but I am almost a hermit with barely any family…
I’ve read a Hungarian forum about vaccines, whoa, people have attitudes all over the place there too. Many are quite choosy and don’t want Sputnik. Or AZ. They mostly want Pfizer. Some are very much against vaccines.
As I have an insanely high belief in my genes, immune system, guardian angel etc., I am not very worried, I can’t help it, this instinct(?) doesn’t even consult my conscious mind but I consciously believe in my health too - I just know even this body can’t fight off everything. There are risks everywhere. If I just sit here, I still may die in an accident. We can’t live risk-free lives and if we could, that would probably be not something I call life.
As a healthy almost-hermit, I wait for a little while more and then we will see what will be the situation. I probably will get vaccinated and then I can forget all about it…? My other family members already had at least their first shot.
The majority of the people who signed up for a vaccine got it already in this country. 3 millions from 4 millions, Alvaro says (he is still the one who is more interested in numbers regarding Covid. I am a bit bored of the topic). Population is below 10 millions.
Yes, of course, almost(?) anything can kill us. But the chance is super tiny as far as we know and has requirements. Not significant at all.
Back to the original question:
They stop J&J after 6 clots. The study they did showed around 15 clots in the vaccine group and 0 in the control group. I brought it up as a concern for why I don’t want J&J as they approved it. The approvers should seriously consider a new line of work.
Now we are hearing about women having heavy or unusual periods after the vaccine (one exactly don’t know). I wonder what the mechanism for that is. I wonder what else the vaccine is doing in there if it is affecting the reproductive system. If it is just J&J it could have to do with whatever is causing the blood clotting, but it is kind of opposite.
I also wonder if it was seriously looked at during the trials, or if it was blown off as so many ‘women’s issues’ regularly are.
I’ve heard that as well - including from one woman on Twitter who said that she’d been “Gettysburged” (…not that it’s funny - that expression just made me laugh). In any case, it doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. Warning for those who are squeamish, but menstrual blood is the lining of the uterus which sloughs off when there’s no fertilized egg to grow - so wouldn’t you need a bit of time to build extra lining for there to be excess bleeding?