Another ZC Thread


(Daisy) #21

Haha I think the last time I was on the forum I had gotten a carton of strawberries, so what…early June? That was 3 meals that included strawberries. Then in late July, I picked fresh blackberries and had a handful of those over a week. I got one zucchini at a farmer’s market and had that over 2 meals whenever squash season was and half an ear of corn once in our local corn season. That was it, every other day and meal has been :100: carnivore with the exception of 2 weekends ago. It was my daughters birthday and we went to a farmer’s market. The lady had real sourdough bread, which I had been wanting to try since my keto days, but have never found a source. But my eating disorder still is inside me and even though I gave away 3/4 of the loaf, it helped contribute to a huge binge on Sunday. Just cracking that door even an inch, let my disorder take a mile that included a cheddar bay biscuit at red lobster and lobster mashed potatoes, then I came home and finished off the bread, ate cheesy popcorn, nut butter, and unsweetened chocolate. I learned from it and refused to let it get me down and have stayed :100: carnivore since then. But it had caused my hunger signals to be just completely out of whack, so I went to omad a week ago to see if that helps. It’s just a little experiment I’m trying for a couple weeks


(Elizabeth ) #22

(Elizabeth ) #23

(Daisy) #24

Dr phinney’s lecture seemed to be primarily focused on people eating low carb, vs zero carb. Much of his argument was in regards to introducing carbs vs fasting from them. So far, I haven’t had any trouble with 24-48 hour fasts. My issues seem to come with the 90+ hour fasts, so I’m not going to do those anymore. My body just does not seem to respond well. But so far so good with shorter ones. I’ve committed to doing the weekly fast through November and after that, I’ll see how I feel. I try really hard to listen and learn from my body, and hear the messages it’s sending.

Right now, it’s telling me I need a break from pork. It’s not been agreeing with me and I actually am thinking that’s why I’m having such a hard time adapting to omad is because I’ve eaten this pork at every omad for the last week. Maybe the chickens will get the last serving lol and tomorrow will be just beef.


#25

Whoever sees food as an enemy are mental and needs helps… Diet is all about eating :slight_smile: (I always use diet in its normal meaning anyway, it has nothing to do with weigh-loss or gain, just eating.)

And I never look at food as fuel only. But it’s its most important role, yep.

(I will go back to the usual thread when I go back to carnivore and feel comfortable and chill. Things got too much out of hand, they almost never do that to this extent. I will think about that.)

I am no EFer, I plan OMAD for November if it feels the best idea even then. I probably will need TMAD days too (I never ever did OMAD for more than a few days on any woe but it should be easier on a well-planned carnivore woe as long as I can eat enough but I probably can make it happen. carni OMAD may be perfect for me. I surely won’t force it, we will see) but it will be so very interesting longer term :smiley:
IF is a given in my life, it’s always a very bad sign if I don’t do it. But it’s not always the same, of course. Almost nothing is always the same for me.

I like experiments… What does it mean here, out of whack? As I wrote, OMAD sounds good to me but is eating a proper sized meal easy for you? My frequent problem whenever I go near carnivore that I get satiated too quickly so my meals are even smaller than my keto OMAD meals. The “right” food choices should help but it may feel almost forced, artificial not to eat my normal food. Timing helped last time but not enough. But it was short-term, maybe my body would adapt and I felt very good even with my little food… It’s not like I don’t have plenty of reserves… And OMAD is extremely convenient and comfortable, I liked the idea before when I couldn’t do it. But its benefits are less noticeable on carnivore so I won’t be sad if it can’t happen. But I surely will try :slight_smile: (I.e. I won’t force-feed myself during the day when I feel zero desire and need for food. Though I can eat multiple meals even if I start eating after 6pm…)


#26

yes KP I so absolutely understand what you wrote. I have walked there also many times til I found real control. And it has nothing to do with willpower or any luck and such, I only found it thru staying on plan come heck or highwater. I think when I realized the only way for me to make any real health change had to be I had to abstain from carbs. I have no control cause the carbs rule me. And when my hunger goes out of whack I know just what you mean, in the end we are almost truly helpless cause addiction takes over along with excusing mindset to go down the rabbit hole.

Only thing for me was holding onto zc like a life preserver. Kept me afloat. But the one thing I promised myself is I would always eat as much as I need on any given day to make myself comfortable ya know…never deny myself food ever. When I made that ‘deal’ with myself it was only then I could ditch carbs, eat all I wanted and thru time on plan start to change my mindset and truly my body as it healed more.

It is a hard darn row to sow truly cause I been there and many times I thought this was it, the end of this insanity, time to quit it all and say screw it, done deal…why bother any more? til one day it clicked for me. I found the path to work for me and not against me.

We all find that eventually but have to learn lessons thru the way and best thing is learning from it ya know…acknowledge how it all went down for you, own it, live it and learn from it, put some mindset changes into play to avoid and help us next time is all we can do.

I made it, you will make it cause you are smart. You know and you are seeing what it takes for you to hold on a good plan that suits you. You got this!

See it is funny you went OMAD as your experiment to help you when my personality went totally the other way, I allowed myself without any guilt or any negative baggage to eat as much food each day as I wanted and that is what brought me around LOL Each of having to do our thing to suit us to get thru the tough times :slight_smile:


(Daisy) #27

Meaning I had no control of my hunger. I was eating what most people eat in omad in one of three meals a day! And it wasn’t that I needed it, I wanted it. I tracked my intake for the first 3 days of omad (I can’t be bothered to do it long term haha) and averaged 1500-1700 calories each day. Before, I was easily eating close to 3000 or more calories and was rapidly gaining bad weight (abdominal weight)


#28

then count me as mental and in need of help.

'cause I ‘dieted’ badly and use that term as a nasty 4 letter word not meaning my eating menu LOL, I ‘dieted’ and more I did in my years and failed, the more food became my enemy. I never had food issues til I started ‘dieting’ and then all hell broke loose and it ruined me. In fact dieting put food as my enemy. I ain’t better yet from the damage it has done to me but with zero carb, eating all I want every single day and getting health results has showed me that food can heal, not destroy.


#29

very smart. just do you as you feel comfortable. anything we feel bad on or ‘have to force’ we need to say, hmmm, this doesn’t suit me right now and drop it :slight_smile: good move.

also pork is weird for me thru zc. I ate a boatload then one day it didn’t set well in my tummy. I ate alot of pork chops and then ditched pork for quite a long time til lately I have been doing some pork ribs, and they are delish, but I don’t rely on them, they are a sometimes meal for me.

So again, as you stay zc your food will change up on ya alot, just go with the flow, follow that feeling of what you want to eat and not eat as much and go for it and don’t look back !


(Daisy) #30

I’ve done the “eat as much carnivore foods as I please” to “make my body happy” route so many times. It just doesn’t seem to work for me. My appetite is as insatiable as I’ll allow it to be. I’ve talked to a few other long time carnivores who have the same issue. They say omad is the only way they can keep from gaining massive amount lbs of weight on carnivore. Our hunger signals are just broken and when you over consume even carnivore foods, you inevitably will gain weight lol.


(Daisy) #31

It’s funny because people like dr berry and steak and butter gal say you can’t overeat on carnivore and my answer is watch me lol. I’m still very broken


#32

the above was the binge and you can ‘see how it was coming after you’ right. just a few berries, then I will ‘be good’. Just a few more berries next time and I will ‘be good’ and all in with carnivore. At the farmers market you saw what you wanted and decided ‘just a little’, only a 1/2 ear of corn, can’t hurt me and then I will be ‘carnivore good’ and you are then, you are on plan and good til that next sabotage which is 'ahhh, I spy that sourdough bread I WANTED on keto and now see, not on carnivore plan, but just a little won’t hurt and you allow it. Then you went all in and carb addiction monster took over cause from those ‘few strawberries’ that should have meant nothing took you right down the carb addiction path straight to that binge. Believe me I know. I done it many times. I sure get it…key is you have to see it for what it is. Where did it start? from the first thing you ate off carnivore and ‘allowed it ya know’ and not saying one should feel guilt or all that, but one must say, I wanted those strawberries and WHY? cause you wanted carbs. Simple as that and ya allowed it. Only way off all carbs, and this is if you need to be a true zero carber for survival like me LOL, is to never eat them.

I am gonna tell you a cold hard truth. Long term carnivores who are eating too much and gaining weight and are insatiable are not doing this plan correctly…I wanna say they cheat more than they tell ya :slight_smile: We don’t know truths in people’s meals truly and if they have big troubles for long times it is cause they are eating carbs…but NOT ALL, some have real med issues of course.

See I don’t mean that bad in any way but those are massive red flags when a long term zc person hears about another long term zc person. Now it could be they are medically challenged and damaged and truly need to eat alot for a long time to heal, yes that happens, but most who come into this usually do not ever have the troubles you wrote about.

Now the hardest part…you can’t limit. ever. the minute you limit your food intake on purpose is the minute you start to fail at zero carb.

zc is eat to heal. healing gives the weight loss.

now for those who gain cause they think they ‘are over eating’ is because their body was starved when coming into zc and wants/demands this food. Kelly Hogan gained, I think 20 or 40, the first 8 months, if I remember right on that, I gained about 8 lbs and started to freak out of course but I lost that 8 easily down the line with just eating as much as I wanted. Long term zc people will tell you, many gained at first. It is ok. Hard to accept tho but if you are ok thru that, you hit the other side and heal and lose that gained weight and go further with the benefits.

key is faith in the plan. either ya have it or don’t. I went all in and put the faith in the ZIOH people when they said, your gaining a bit, forget it and just eat as you need every single day. Never limit, in the end you will stop gaining for your body, your body and appetite will reset and heal and back down the scale ya go and it worked just that way for me.

but some do have trouble with weight loss and being more insulin resistant and all they have longer term troubles.

here is a good read. just take what ya can from it if it peaks interest for you. This info is complied from those zc people who walked this path and learned from other’s experiences and know what it takes for success.

thing is some gain but the right way to combat that is eat more. weird as it sounds it is the full truth of it all.

but one can only do experiments and more on ourselves and see where we land and what does best fit us and that is ok but if carbs are the problem, you can’t ever let the carbs in if they take you on a destructive path.

I was one who thought, ahhh, 1 french fry, no problem.
a week goes by, one lick of the spoon when frosting a cake for the family. Ahh, I got this.
2 weeks go by, out socializing with family and geez I want a small bite of that big old pretzel the kid is eating and I eat a 1 inch piece. No biggie, I got this!
A month goes by, feel great, then all heck breaks loose cause something else triggers me and down the hole I go. And why, cause all that I allowed before walked me right to where the binge starts. Luckily longer on plan when I know I am in a bad way and gonna carb binge, I eat SO MUCH zc food it is crazy and I literally eat myself out of the hole, never doing the binge I was gonna do. Cause I know one thing, zc food heals and helps and if we walk from that and are one of those super sensitive carbers like I am, we lose control eventually, even if I walked there little by little from a spoon lick of frosting to 1 french fry and I know exactly where it leads me.

So just think about it all ya know :slight_smile: All I did was observe me with a magnifying glass on why I was doing what I was doing. Then I set about fixing me, a work in progress tho HAHA

just great chatting out stuff like this. sometimes something someone says hits home or we don’t apply some of that info to us, but chatting it out sometimes just opens flood gates to us learning so much more on what it takes for us personally.


(Daisy) #33

I don’t know that I agree with this though. The strawberries were June 13,14,15. Perfectly satisfied, no desire to binge after. Then strict carnivore until July 23rd when I enjoyed a few days of blackberries. Perfectly satisfied, no binges, just a handful a day with plain full fat greek yogurt. No binges after. Half an ear of corn on Sep 7th (pictures are so nice! Haha). Perfectly satisfied, no binges after. I can’t find a picture of the zucchini, but it was the same situation, perfectly satisfied over 2 meals, no desire to binge. Whole Foods don’t cause binges or desire to binge. I feel that our ancestors absolutely would have enjoyed these seasonal foods when they were available.

My problem came wit’s man made food. Sourdough bread. A bite of my daughter’s pumpkin bread. Cheddar bay biscuits. Cheddar popcorn. Nut butter. All man made. All created a binge. That’s just how my body and brain reacts. I had no issues with God’s food, only man’s food lol


#34

here is another good one


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #35

Both Dr. Phinney and Dr. Fung agree that fasting over 72 hours should be done only under medical supervision.


#36

no it all starts with the carbs you decided you could do ok on, those walked you into the bread.

it is a chain ya know.

did you ever go all in, full on carnivore with ‘no extras’, not a plant carb bite ever? from eating 10 berries a month to eating none next month, to eating 1/2 ear a corn 2 months later, means nothing when ya think about it, but to your body and personality it fits that this is your dreaded carb creep.

You don’t binge after ever little taste, it builds and builds til that one trigger sends ya flying. ticking time bomb, every plant carb you ingest.

You are not your ancestor. Their ‘fruit’ is not the fruit of today. pesticides, gmo, pick unripe, ripen in truck with gas on way to market and more. Not one thing about plants eaten in old times ever will apply to the crap you are eating now truly. Your ancestors lived different, and as much as they ate berries for survival, that was just it, there was no cheddar bay biscuits on the corner in a restaurant for those ancestors, but there is for you :slight_smile: So what ‘they had only’ is something you might say is good for you a little cause it is natural and seasonal, but much different issues surround that little berry :slight_smile:


(Daisy) #37

The berries were actually wild berries that I picked myself from the woods behind my property. Never gmo’d or sprayed, completely ancestral :smile: now the corn and squash, probably not so much :joy:


#38

not complete from ancestral times, even the soil could have been contaminated with alot of toxins/pollutants thru the years LOL

but one thing they all have in common, sugar content :wink:

Just eye openers ya know. Just things to consider and read up on and learn of course what does work for you etc. Just see an overall picture of what it takes for you and how you need to bob and weave thru the changes. All we can do :slight_smile:


(Elizabeth ) #39

I’d say 90% or better of the long-term carnivores I know I mean 5 years and more, eat twice a day.


(Elizabeth ) #40

Yeah Phinney’s not comfortable with over 24 hours. He says that might be okay but he even qualifies that. Amber O’Hearn doesn’t think it’s necessary. None of the 12 and 13-year veterans and administrators on the Facebook groups recommend or support it. They’ve seen the fallout and what happens to people over more than a decade of helping tens of thousands.