Another Carnivore Thread

(MeatiMarti) #942

Yep unicorn :unicorn: I am

#943

There are surely some people who can overeat on carnivore but it must be super rare.

I can overeat on keto but not for long. It’s great for maintenance for me I guess. But I could easily eat at a calorie surplus if I wanted.
But if I drop my carbs even more… No way to eat too much, not even if I want to, it seems. Or I need to want it very very much, I am sure I could find a way to be able to gain muscles (but me as a 43 years old lazy woman don’t need very much extra calories for that).
It’s another world, really, at least for me. Now that I started, I think about the poor souls again who use willpower to eat little and stand the hunger for several hours a day to lose fat… I don’t accept hunger but I eat even without hunger if I have an appetite. But if I ditch plants with their carbs, I don’t have a demanding appetite when I am satiated. And I get satiated easily and well. It seems perfect for me now.
But not everyone can do this right away or even, even temporarily. And not everyone should.
Still, it would solve many people’s problem. Just like keto. Just like simple low-carb. People struggle with bad diets, it’s so sad.

#944

I still don’t want an own thread (I would be uncontrollable there).
So… I did my first day. It was super easy, obviously, I was full from the last days/weeks and I needed a very very low carb day. Nothing interesting happened.

It was my strict day, no plants - except tea, that’s basic especially in winter and I actually drank tea before I got out of my bed, it’s my waking up warm liquid when my SO is at home.

I ate eggs, lard and some meat. I got some subtle but anoying hunger at 17:30 so I ate. I got satiated very quickly but I ate more and again 2 hours later. I still couldn’t reach 1000 kcal but it should be okay for a single day, especially now that I ate a bit too much lately. Some people don’t have this, they eat like nothing happened but it affects me for days (normally not to this extent though).
Not much joy from eating (I wasn’t even into eggs today. Or meat, at least the type I had. I like lard but well, that’s not so great alone after a while either), probably mostly because of my last days with their not quite right eating and sleep and lack of exercise.

I ate more fat than protein in grams today, nothing new or surprising here but it feels different with very little carbs.
I am a bit nauseated now but tomorrow I will add mustard and that will help, I think. I will start to use some spices too but no dairy yet. I almost missed my cheese today… I will add it back very soon.

I probably ate around 7g salt today, I added 2g myself but all my meat was very salty to begin with.

I didn’t really miss coffee, it’s interesting though I didn’t really enjoyed it lately. I drank a lot of tea though. A LOT. And water too. I always was a thirsty one.

I am glad I don’t need to eat in the next ~16-18 hours. Not eating is nice especially in my current state.

#945

I was going to just brush by this comment.

Like @Fangs notes we have been told that arthritic changes are permanent wear and tear. That’s what I was taught at university as well. It’s what I wrote in the exam answers and I passed the exams.

But, diabetes can’t be reversed… hang on. But an enlarged heart chamber can’t reverse remodel… hang on. Yes, to both. And my yoga teacher has been rebuilding flexibility in broken bodies her whole career.

So gathering up some learning. Using a low inflammatory diet a bit higher in omega 3 essential acids, plus body fat loss to reduce gravity fed forces, plus redesigning activity to be joint (back) sparing while encouraging movement to increase flexibility and strength, stimulating healing blood flow with temperature variability, massage and acupuncture. Using bone broth consistently as a therapeutic agent to build collagen and cartilage support. Add vitamin K2 supplementation to remodel and retrieve the minerals from arthritic spurs to reform healing bone. Hang upside down regularly.

I’ve never put this much thought into it because I’ve accepted the wisdom handed down by the experts who lived in the SAD diet epoch.

We live in a revived era of more optimal nutrition in which previous barriers are removed for healing impossible things.

(Davy) #946

FWIW, I was having hip/pelvic pains every morning…they’d about half go away once I got moving in the morning. Seemed to be some sort of arthritis…I was a runner and extreme hiker for 30 years. I’m 65 now. Since being on Keto for 3 weeks now, they’ve completely gone away. Don’t know if it’s because of the Keto or the Root2 BioCell collagen I’ve been taking for 2 months - or a combination of both. I’m sticking with both though.

(Justin Jordan) #947

Aside from how debatable the damage being permanent is (and it IS highly debatable - research has shown some ‘permanent’ ligament and tendon damage to not be so, under the right condition) - the actual symptoms of stuff is surprisingly poorly correlated to the damage.

If you have bad knees, then the doc examines your knees, finds out you have damage, and then an assumption is made about how they interrelate, and so the pain is permanent. Except…it isn’t. You can actually find loads of people with arthritic joints (or degenerative discs) and such with no actual pain or limited motion.

So ‘I have arthritic BLANK so it will always hurt’ is not necessarily true in a couple dimensions. As a personal anecdote I have arthritis and several other problems in my right shoulder, but the actual pain is tied directly to inflammation. If my diet is right, it’s fine. Normal range of motion, no pain. But the MRI still shows loads of damage.

#948

It would be such a very low amt. of people’s bodies would be out of control from some medical situations maybe, but super duper rare like you said, that would overeat to a huge level.

One thing about carnivore is you can eat all you need at any time. If you have a constant appetite it is because one’s body is fat adapting. Dumping toxins. Is getting real nutrition for the first time, not encumbered with tons of dieting tricks and tips like limiting food intake, or frankenfoods that poision our bodies and using every bit of that healthy nutrition to repair the body, restore hormonal balances and fixes a crap ton more internally.

So that image of ‘overeating’ in our brains, it is not even a concept in carnivore truly. Overeating kinda is about calorie counting and more and you go past those you set. Carnivore has none of that. There is nothing to ‘overeat’ on this plan. It doesn’t exist.

You can’t truly overeat in carnivore. If one is eating a lot on strict type carnivore plan, then it is because the body is demanding it! And it has it’s own timeline when it will demand less food. When internal healing is more balanced and the body is more restored, the heavy eating will start to abide, but that is very personal to everyone.

Beauty of carnivore is you can’t overeat cause it is the body demanding it and if you follow your appetite as instructed when changing into this plan and put no ‘myths, control, restriction of eating times and more’ onto this plan, it then works the way it should.

But if a carnivore is on plan a long time and is complaining of being starved and eating a ton they could be eating crap food off plan. That throws everything off. This is stuff one never truly knows over the internet, what people really eat in a day LOL and we can only investigate posts for someone in the truths they originally post to us about what help they might need. So that is a hanging situation kinda sometimes on forums.

One grabs onto carnivore and let it work on its timeline as it should, never restrict food, etc. then at some point your body will only demand the food thru real hunger signals it is time to eat, and when full you have to put the fork down because you can’t physically eat one more bite. As life intended actually LOL Eat when hungry. Stop when full.

You are so right. So many people do struggle with bad ‘diets’ out there. It is sad. I was one of them struggling a lot til I finally figured it all out. When a newbie person into the low carb world, it does take time to understand the whys of it all. How to work the plan to stay low carb and begin this journey. Once into it tho, it is a wild ride HAHA

#949

I like this.

Plus nowadays we do have some very valued prescription medicines that do help a person improve their lives and live longer.

So we do have it optimal like you said!!

#950

Smart man. Stick with both if you feel so darn great LOL Happy you are feeling so much better. Living with some nagging pain in life is never a good thing…you got great improvement!!

#951

Fangs, that would be great in a perfect world. but you’re forgetting that we are human beings with emotions - sure, we would all like to eat only to survive, but our heads can get in the way sometimes and we stuff our feelings with food. You’ve also mentioned that you have cravings, so you understand what I’m talking about. I do know satiety, I understand when my body has enough, but stressful situations and triggers can take us places we don’t want to go, carnivore or not.

#952

There is a thing as overeating on carnivore too. Overeating is eating too much, it’s not healthy and it can be done on carnivore as well. It’s just rare. But some people feel compelled to eat even way beyond satiation (I don’t have this without too much carbs and I only go beyond satiation but stop when I am really full and it starts to get uncomfortable but some people eat too much on carnivore as well). I would imagine most of them do that due to their past on bad diets and carnivore diet cures them eventually but maybe not. Our mind is strange and sometimes messed up.

#953

Not sure what specifically you are referring to…is it that one can’t overeat on carnivore?

Cause one can not. Simple as that.

Now if one eats crap off plan like a giant cake off their carnivore plan…then yea that is sugar addiction rearing its ugly head and that is hard to combat, I get that. If we are dragged off carnivore thru emotional eating and addiction to sugar it can happen. And one can overeat. We all have to fight to lock in and change our eating plans and it takes time for many of us.

But one can’t overeat on carnivore cause it doesn’t exist on carnivore.

A person can eat 5 lbs of any meat/seafood/dairy if they want. Eat 2 lbs. the next. Eat 7 lbs. the next. BUT THIS must be carnivore food. It is allowed. It is wanted if your body asks for it to be constantly fed…it is what it needs…then when you feed it carnivore constantly, at some point you heal inside, hormones readjust and nutritional restoration happens and your body will ask for less food.

So overeating on protein and fat doesn’t happen on carnivore. Your eating as your body asks.

Is that kinda what you mean?

of course I have cravings. Being near food that other’s eat I might want. I see it, I want it HAHA I go on vacation and want to eat some new and exciting foods from that location. I have emotions also, but I don’t eat it cause I don’t need it because I am so full, satiated, happy as a clam that I don’t ‘need to run’ there at all. Might I choose a bite of this or that sometimes, of course but I will never ‘dive into a full meal of carby crap’…but remember too I have been on plan a long time. I walked thru the swamp and I paid my dues of it all.

I found stress and triggers are what I can handle easily now after being carnivore. I think more clearly. I don’t hide from stress, I attack the situations, handle them and move on. I do credit this help on the above from my clear thinking.

But yea I had to fight like the dickens when I started extreme low carb and into carnivore. I backslided. I fought all the damn excuses of pretending I can eat all the junk I wanted today but commit the next day to eating clean. I denied the fact that eating healthy was the only fix…stay on plan and fight like heck to stay on it cause it was healing me and would give me great benefits…but oh that might take too long and today I wanted pizza :slight_smile: So just today I would have pizza, crave more and fall back into the endless cycle.

oh yea I went thru ALL OF that. I was a dieting mess to the ultimate HAHA

But what info I type now is straight info about what it is now for me. How the plan should work for people and what is required for that to happen. Did I buck that in the beginning of my journey, darn right I did!

Hope that explains about how I type things out now. I am in a different level of carnivore than a beginner. I learned a lot but I did go thru hell and highwater to get here.

#954

No. Carnivore plan is all about eating as much meat/seafood as you need at all times. It is never restrict. Every single person eats as they need to eat to heal our bodies. We are individual therefore we can all eat different amounts in our journey.

There isn’t overeating on carnivore unless there is some true big medical situation or you are eating plants, sugar, frankenfoods and more…those carbs drive one to over eat more and have side effects.

meat and seafood have no side effects. your body is asking for them so you eat them as it instructs.

Hmmm, let me think maybe we are chatting emotions here?

Emotional eating. You are carnivore. Something emotional goes down. You eat a 1 lb. ribeye steak. You are full. But oh no, your emotions go rampage on ya and you wanna eat them quiet. You eat 1/2 lb. shrimp. Not enough. You fry up some chicken breasts and eat those. Oh boy not enough, you now want some bacon. You eat 1/2 of the package. Still hungry? Emotional, you fry up the other 1/2 of that bacon and throw cheese on it and melt it. (yum by the way LOL)

Even considering the emotional factors, how much of the above can you eat before you can’t eat one more bite? And if you can eat it all up to that last bite…then your body wanted every single bite of that food. Cause on carnivore there is a point when you can’t put one more bite into your mouth…that is what the plan is :slight_smile:

we can’t confuse ‘overeating on crap off plan’ and being dragged off the carnivore plan backsliding into sugar crap and more as ‘overeating’…we are talking can one overeat truly on meat/seafood and some dairy. No. You eat til satisfied. You eat til your body doesn’t want one more bite of meat. So that means for all of us carnivores, no matter how much we eat in lbs. of meat/seafood per day, we can never overeat on the carnivore menu.

did I answer that right in what you were chatting?

maybe we are coming at this from a few points of view, like emotional eating off plan? Triggers sending us reeling into eating junk off carnivore?

#955

Off plan is totally different, of course but some people DO overeat on carnivore. My definition of overeating is eating over our caloric need and maybe eating at maintenance when we are already overweight and should lose fat.
I probably can’t do it, extreme low carb works wonderfully for me and I always stop if I am fully satiated but there are people who are more messed up or who has not very satiating carnivore food. Eggs and meat satiate me extremely well and I can’t eat very much extra fat without carbs so I am safe but we can read even in this forum that some people can eat insane amounts of meat or cheese or something, way beyond their energy need for a long term. You aren’t like that, I am not like that but some people are.

#956

ah ha

again, no one can not overeat.

Carnivore plan guidelines carry absolutely no calorie restrictions.
It carries no macros. It has no eating windows. It has not one ‘old diet myth or baggage’ that comes with this plan.

You can not overeat kcals on carnivore. It doesn’t exist.

The plan is so simple and a lot of us come into it not realizing it carries no tracking/counting/restrictions at all!

Therefore one can not overeat ever.

A person is instructed to eat absolutely as much carnivore food as they need at all times. You do not calorie count, never a macro, never a restriction of any kind.

You eat all the meat/seafood you want all the time. To your personal fullness. Til you can’t eat one more bite and are happy. You eat totally for yourself as you see fit, all the meat/seafood you want…of course dairy should be watched and maybe ‘limited’ cause it falls into a gray area. Some can eat a lot of cheese and do well, many can only handle a bit. But meat/seafood is a free for all point blank.

Is that what we are implying? One can overeat to their caloric needs? There are no calorie ‘needs’ on carnivore. You eat as you need. Super lazy do nothing day and not that hungry you might eat less. You are in a marathon race or climb a mountain hike or had a very busy moving day for your body and you are hungry to the max…you eat all the meat and seafood you desire.

So there is no overeating on carnivore in the old ‘dieting’ sense of the world. Like I said it is not a concept on carnivore.

OK, I get this. What newer people might be seeing.
One person is eating about 1-1.5 lbs of meat per day and another person ate 3.5 lbs. for the day.

that is normal. Absolutely normal. We will never eat alike in our journey on carnivore.

the body requires whatever meat it needs to heal us internally. No 2 will be alike ever on that. The healing of all is different, some people require low healing and need less meat to start this process, some come into it with needing a lot of healing and the body requires more fuel to do just that so they may eat more. This again is a very normal situation on carnivore.

we might be fighting cravings while new on carnivore…like me, in the beginning I had to eat more than I ‘thought’ I needed (NOW DO NOT get me wrong here…I was not overeating to what we consider overeating here LOL) but I ate when kinda not as hungry cause I wanted pizza or chips or junk. So I said to myself, IF YOU want pizza, then you go off and eat another steak. Well I would fry it up, eat 1/2 and be full and happy. Normally I would not eat that other steak now when longer into my plan but back when I started, I had to eat carnivore food just to keep me on the carnivore plan. basically it was eat pizza or bacon? you aren’t all that hungry but which way are you going to go? I would choose the bacon just to surpress that urge to go off and eat a pizza. and it worked for me.

but again, if I can physically fit food into my stomach then I could eat. So it was never ‘overeating’ in the old diet concept…when one counts calories and says I eat 1600 per day. Next day you eat 2,200 calories. Yes you overate your calorie limit you put on yourself.

Carnivore has none of that.

Any and all times you eat from the animal kingdom only none of that food has limits. Ever.

Only your own tummy can hold so much. You eat til that stomach is full and you can’t take one more bite of food into your stomach, then you ate til full. You can’t go past it. That is allowed on carnivore. In fact it is wanted~!

Those eating more may be in a different part of their journey. I easily ate 3-4 lbs. of meat and was in awe I could do it in the beginning. Thru natural time on plan my needs reduced, as it should be for me naturally. So I eat less now cause my body doesn’t need it but at one time I ate a ton of meat and seafood. and a heck of a lot of cheese too. More than you could imagine I could eat LOL

This is a normal path for all thru carnivore. We eat as we need. We eat as we desire at all times. We do not eat when not hungry. If we start getting an urge to eat off plan, that desire for pizza or chips or whatever, we eat a pack of bacon. We eat a steak. We eat the food we love to not go there off plan. And if we can eat a whole pack of bacon while wanting pizza, it means we were hungry and needed to be satisfied.

I know it is a new thought pattern when figuring out carnivore. It comes with nothing other than eat all you need at all times. You will never go wrong, never eat more than you need at any time, never experience hunger or crazy times if we eat til satisfied.

the minute you go off carnivore and do another plan…like Keto or Count Calories and you eat more than your ‘count should be on that plan’…then yea you overate your calorie limit you put on yourself.

Carnivore has none of that.

I love chatting out this stuff. It is so fascinating how carnivore works not like any other plans out there and has totally different concepts in it.

#957

Just because there is no deliberate calorie restriction, we need to eat the right amount of calories to have the right body composition (for people like me maintenance is a wide calorie range but one theoretically still can go over it and some people do it practically). Therefore, overeating exists on carnivore using my definition of overeating. I am aware I can’t persuade you but it’s not even my goal. I just feel compelled to point it out. It is a rare but existing thing.

I totally can eat smoked pork chuck without hunger or a need for it. I just can’t overeat even doing so, I guess :slight_smile:

By the way, I probably need to change my attitude again, just like I did on OMAD.
Normally when I am on any diet and even wants to lose fat, I should eat as little as possible. Not like I lose anything but at least I don’t overeat and that’s nice.
But on carnivore, I guess I should eat as much as comfortably possible. Not like I can turn off my carefulness but I am so good with eating a lot that I have chances.
Right now, I don’t wait for hunger to eat, I eat whenever I actually can eat. Maybe not after midnight, we will see.
Coffee messes up with things a bit. I was supposed to eat eggs, fat, pork chuck (my beef is frozen right now but tomorrow will be a nice day) and spices (new! one day without them was enough) today. I needed some warm liquid that isn’t tea today so coffee happened too. Ideas about putting things into it (it’s not a good coffee) emerged… I was firm about my no dairy policy but I put an egg yolk into it. It was enough to trigger something so I had to eat a full meal. 500 kcal and now I am extremely full. Fortunately I started at a very early hour, at noon so I am positive I can eat some more later. But I probably can’t handle another low-calorie day so I might need tricks tomorrow. Or at least change my mentioned attitude. In the last 9 years, I almost always try to eat as little as possible except when I don’t care and don’t have control (it usually results in slight overeating, my energy need is tiny when I see it as food). It’s hard to shake it off but my 4 decades old overeating abilities might help (they are weak without much carbs and it’s good, I don’t want to be a monster).
It’s similar to another similarly long attitude (it’s not the right word but I don’t know what should I write here), minimizing fat. I do that all the time, trying to eat as little fat as possible, usually added fat but not only that. Maybe it won’t work on carnivore longer term but I probably would get nauseus if I started to eat as much fat as possible. I don’t worry minimizing fat is too ingrained into me as I love fat too much and I never took it way too seriously. And I always dreamed of eating way more fat I could afford on maintenance keto, that’s very low for me. Of course, I can’t do that easily on carnivore.
But I won’t be bored in the next several days I’m sure, it’s always interesting to try new things.
These 2 days aren’t informative as I ate a bit much before and it affects these days (and the second isn’t over yet but I am too satiated almost all the time) but my previous almost carnivore meals showed the same, full satiation is too easy so my calories drop.
I am maybe not even in ketosis yet (no idea at all but if I am not, I will be tomorrow), that usually makes things even “worse”. Maybe it won’t happen now as past overeating and carnivore are strong enough without ketosis.
I feel better today but want to feel hungrier (just nicely satiated, not too satiated).
Maybe eating insane amounts of water doesn’t help but I am thirsty and likes warm drinks. It’s good I don’t try to eat salt except in my food, that would be very bad now.

Keto->carnivore feels like 1.5 meals -> 1 meal. The changes are too strong, in the desired direction but they overdo it. But I can’t be anywhere near to certain yet, I’ve just started and my previous experiences weren’t on carnivore just close to it. My body and/or mind always did something about my calorie deficit this far, anything to avoid to lose fat despite it’s ugly and not healthy. Maybe I will be very hungry in a few days. I had that on OMAD when I couldn’t help to underate. But I guess it’s easier to stay on the wagon if it’s carnivore and not OMAD as I can respond to hunger with eating without falling off the wagon. One meal a day was almost compatible with me but not quite. But 2 isn’t good either. Maybe the smaller meals on carnivore will help. Or I just will have no problem with one meal. But I probably will have different days, I like I don’t need to care, freedom is good and I am not a robot. Natural OMADers either but I am just almost that, it seems. And that’s not enough.

These are just some thoughts, I do my best to be chill and avoid overcomplication and too many rules. I never force myself anyway (I just try not too extreme things for a little while because I am curious and like challenges) so I think I’m good.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #958

For me overeating had nothing to do with calorie counting. It simply was eating past the point of comfort ignoring satiety signals in favor of gluttony for the hedonistic pleasure on the tongue. Like post Thanksgiving syndrome, I really didn’t need that seconds plate. :joy:

I’ve never counted calories in my life. I became aware of how many I was generally consuming during the five months I tracked food on KETO, and I followed erroneous advice to eat at a 20% caloric deficit for a few months. But even doing that as a fat adapted KETO eater I never felt hungry or like I was restricting or under eating. I actually upped my food by about 25% and started losing weight again after a two month stall, hit maintenance and quit tracking everything including carbs.

Since carbs are only making up about 2% of what I have been eating lately I have eased up on eating times of day as well and sometimes eating third meat meal, often days with zero plant foods including spices. My adaptation is going well, I feel like I have already made the transition and just need to clean up my Carnivore eating a little come January 1st. Oxalates are being purged slowly I believe from some body stuff happening lately. I’m still using up my food stock of not clean carnivore stuff this week. I have lots of sausages in the freezer I need to use up so I have space for cleaner carnivore food. I like to buy meat in big portions and cut them up and vacuum freeze them since I mostly cook for one except when my son is here. Seems most of us have non carnivore family we’re cooking for too, I wish I could just stop buying and preparing vegetables. Not that they temp me just an extra PITA to deal with the extra prep and cleanup. Meat is simple. I cook a lot of it outside on the grill so nothing to clean. :cowboy_hat_face:

#959

Another thin. You seem to think people are so perfect that their hunger and calorie need (even though you wrote there is no such things, it obviously isn’t true and you hinted at that. we need energy to climb a hill and live and whatnot. we might not had a calorie limit or goal or whatever but we need a certain amount of calories. it’s mostly the business of our own body, it’s really not ideal to try to figure it out, it’s far from exact anyway. but some people seems to need that. I am mostly curious so sometimes I try to track my macros. as I eat little meat normally, I have not horribly incorrect numbers)… Oh I wrote too much so I start again. So, you seem to think hunger and caloric need are strongly correlated. It isn’t always the case. Some people have no hunger at all, for example. Some carnivore food satiates people not well… But I wrote about that already.
And we easily eat without hunger anyway. I typically have a super long way between hunger and full satiation (it’s when I stop as I wrote before). It’s short only on OMAD (not always) and carnivore (probably not always). And I could add an extra meal when I am perfectly satiated. So, overeating seems possible. I will try it out one day. When I eat low-calorie, I definitely need some high-calorie days as well, it’s technically overeating for that single day (unless I am active as well) but it’s fine and even needed in my case.

I get it, you say we have no limit and it’s fine. And it’s fine, usually. But it’s not fine if it keeps us from having a healthy body, at least regarding body fat. And it’s not fine in some other cases, probably, people can be addicted to carnivore food as well, I mean, too addicted, eating way too much of it. I am fine with normal addiction. Oh and too many protein is problem too and some people can do that. Most of us are probably safe regarding protein, no matter what we do. (I just don’t like when I go really crazy with my protein, it’s wasteful, unnecessary. But I never did that on carnivore - okay, I did 1.5 days of it this far and a few almost carnivore day - and even normally, those are single occasions, therefore fine.)

#960

…and now for something completely different

Climate Change Fears of Teen Activist Are Empirically Baseless

(Full Metal KETO AF) #961

I thought I saw that you recently posted you won’t eat after a certain hour in the evening, or am I mistaken? If you get hungry at 10:30 pm will you cook up a steak or not? :cowboy_hat_face: