Another Carnivore Thread

#1172

Thanks!
It still means I need to eat other things than eggs but I knew that already :smiley:
So it’s like eating a whole raw egg and not worrying about biotin as I only lose the amount in that single egg. As long as my other food provides my need, it should be fine.

#1173

I can relate.
I track often. I am curious and it can be informative sometimes.
But it’s not true life. I always was looking forward to the times when I can forget this. I pity the pour souls who do it forever, maybe it’s not that horrible and better than the other option but still. It’s stressful. I always take breaks even if I happen to track for a while.

And I have little to no control except I chose my diet, limiting the items I consume is very easy, the others are hard. I don’t lose ANY fat just because I track and even do my best to eat as little as I can. My body wants its food and my body gets its food… (My silly “eating without need” sessions are another thing but I got better at those and anyway, things get balanced out so they don’t matter much, I just eat less later.)
It’s called calorie counting and yep, I count. I don’t particularly limit my calories, how could I do that? If I ate 200g fat instead of 100 and I am hungry, I obviously will eat some fat along with my protein, I have priorities and some more or less fixed numbers never win. (I never had a fat limit, actually. I couldn’t care less about that. But I can’t afford a high number if I need little energy. Not like it controls my eating at all as wrote.)

I reached this weight before I started tracking except I used it for some days to figure out what satiates me better. Less carbs. And my strict paleo day had >200g carbs (I loved my vegetables), wow. So, it was informative. But I automatically ate and lost fat when I lowered my carbs, tracking wasn’t needed at all so I skipped that annoyance.

So it’s about finding a method that allows me to lose fat, not choosing a method and forcing myself to be hungry. I don’t do that. Once I actually did. I simply went to bed hungry. I woke up starved and miserable, ate a ton in the next 2 days and felt alive again. My weight was my least concern. It was like worrying about the beauty of our skin when we are tortured with knifes. I never did that again. Eating at 2-3am isn’t nice either the next day but way better. I rarely need that though, a good lunch and maybe a dinner does the trick.

My body manipulates me sometimes, not vice versa. I try to trick it. It’s hard, people are so amazing that they do IF or keto or they get stressed or something and bam! Their body is fine with almost no food, I mean, no complaining. Mine isn’t like that and it’s not necessarily a bad thing but my body wants to maintain this state and I don’t want that. But I alone am powerless except I can make lots of effort to find a good, effective method. I find something after a few years but it stops being effective after some days, usually. But I am really hopeful now.

Especially that I surely will win something even if my fat reserves stay the same. Perfect satiation, better nutrition, losing food addictions… And fun and joy and deliciousness, learning about a new world.
And I surely will eat less than on a carbier diet while I will be more satiated, it’s inavoidable, I function that way. It’s just not necessarily enough to lose fat. But I am sure it will happen eventually. For now, I just eliminate some annoying problems. Maybe it will be enough.

#1174

She eats animals already, why she is against more? (Though my emotions towards fish are different too… I don’t like fish. I like most animals, pigs, cats, spiders, wasps, hyenas… Fish are below them. I just almost never eat them as I don’t like even their meat.)

I have no idea what happens with her but I barely ate any meat (including fish and other seafood… I mean I ate meat a few times per year) for decades and never had iron problems even though I am a woman. I suppose the antinutrients couldn’t do that serious damage with my nutrition… I ate extremely much too, at least when I still ate high-carb. Then I ate eggs, nuts and vegetables, way less amounts of food (but probably more nutritious in average) and I still was fine as far as I could tell, I don’t go to doctors unless I have some problem (like, a possibly broken bone). I have mostly good genes regarding health and it surely matters a bit but the iron MUST come from somewhere, I almost never took any supplements and definitely not iron.
There is probably some research somewhere… But seriously, she eats animals. Why not to eat more and very very useful animals? I hate animal cruelty and who-knows-what in most meat but I trust a seemingly nice farm (and become flexible in some cases when I have no better options. I do much for my principles but there is a limit, my eating and health has a very high priority). There are so many animals to eat besides fish, we can choose if we have problems with some.

Did I mentioned already I want cricket flour? :slight_smile: Even my SO wants cricket flour, it sounds fun. Crickets are tasty, I heard.

(Andrea) #1175

I had quite bad anaemia for most of my life but since I went keto and reduced inflammation, it’s got significantly better and I haevn’t needed supplements since. Anaemia can be caused by inflammation (in my case psoriasis and arthritis).

(Susan) #1176

Awesome, that will be great =).

#1177

Unfortunately the metal micronutrients are not available due to being bound up. But there were more papers in the research list looking at supplements (dietary additives) to access that egg yolk iron. I didn’t read that far.

As mentioned by others, anemia has multiple potential causes, more so than just lack of dietary accessible iron to form the haemaglobin molecule in red blood cells. Inflammation, even extending toward autoimmune diseases, are seemingly common issues for vegetarian type eaters. Not to say meat eaters or fat eaters are immune to autoimmune diseases. Probably just to say that severe anaemia probably needs revisiting, if its root cause remains undiagnosed.

The other way to look at phytic acid or phytates in legumes and seeds is, not as an anti-nutrient, as popular discourse over swing would currently have it, but just with a slight name change, as a binder.

Fair enough in a metabolic dietary situation where the nutrient is needed because the person is in a state of measurable nutrient deficiency, then it may deserve the anti-nutrient title.

In people eating large amounts of meat, the iron binding effect of the phytates may be protective against excess of iron. That is also measurable in blood tests. With iron being an oxidative reactive cation when allowed in the body unbound. That mechanism is part of the anaemic meat causes cancer meme.

Dr. James DiNicolantono (The Salt Fix) talks about phytates from this angle in some of his podcast interviews.

Just like one person’s terrorist,is another person’s freedom fighter, maybe one person’s phytate plant antinutrient is another person’s cancer fighting oxidative molecule binder?

The initial n=1 dietary context is always a key factor.

Metabolic Flexibility - Get Real
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #1178

Aren’t there two types of iron: heme iron (animal sources) and non-heme iron (plant sources)? My understanding is that plant Phytic acid only binds non-heme iron. I don’t recall the source for this but I’ll look for it and add when I find it.

Here:

The specific section that discusses heme and non-heme iron:

Scared to start fasting - I'm always hungry!
(Ashley) #1179

Putting on weight, decided to weigh myself cause felt bit not well today as I’m trying to switch to fully decaf. Up like 3lbs? Something like that. I’m not worried as I have ate a lot on eating days and I think my body is just adjusting!

#1180

They make the statement and link a reference. But if the reference is checked it is difficult to see that it supports, or even relates to the stated claim that heme-iron is not affected by phytic acid.

Non-heme iron from plant-derived foods is poorly absorbed, while the absorption of heme-iron is efficient. Non-heme iron is also highly affected by phytic acid, whereas heme-iron is not (18Trusted Source).

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #1181

@FrankoBear thanks for pointing out that. This article seems to be more on point about the differences between heme and non-heme iron. It also has links to specific studies, although I have not yet looked at all of them.

https://hemochromatosishelp.com/heme-iron-vs-non-heme-iron/

#1182

Ok the reference in that one has got it. Thanks Michael.

Heme-iron is not fully digested. It is protected by the porphyrin ring of haemaglobin or myoglobin in which it is contained, and is absorbed intact within that into the body. Cool.

The thing that might help @Meerkatsandy ‘s anemic friend (aside from eating meat) is the effect vitamin C supplementation has on improving non-heme iron uptake. Secondarily, there is also the effect of not combining higher non-heme iron foods with lower, as the lower will reduce the potential absorption of both. They tested this with black beans and soy beans.

#1183

Thank you all for your input, very kind of you :slight_smile: I will read all the links you posted and share it with her.

#1184

Yes. I am so glad you are looking at this changeover with fresh eyes on it. Many get so bent out of shape over a few lbs. and don’t realize it is a natural situation and will adjust it self in time!! Rock on !!

#1185

Yep, from what I can tell this happens to some people on carnivore but not all.
I initially dropped a few pounds, then gained them back plus a little. Still wearing the same size pants, though. :smile:

(Ashley) #1186

Yeah I went from 208 to 205 quite quickly. But now I’m up again to 211. Going to focus more on eating fat burger for a bit as I think maybe it’s more satiating for me personally. I also have the problem though that my house is so unlevel that depending on where I put my scale I’m up or down quite a few lbs lol. But consistently keep hitting 211 as lowest in some spots. So think that’s where I’m sitting atm.

#1187

@weedrea Andrea, that is so good to read! Is your psoriasis and arthritis gone now?

(Andrea) #1188

Not completely. I find if I fast 2-3 days a week helps my skin. Key thing is that keto helped me stop the meds and painkillers. Still take pain meds maybe once a month when the pain is keeping me awake. I’m not convinced there’s much inflammation any more, it’s just that my wrists are damaged and I’m not sure that will improve much.

(Andrea) #1189

In fact it was Whole 30 that got me off the meds…took a whole year! Worst year of my life when it felt like EVERY SINGLE joint in my body went mad! I had a brain bleed (not related…due to aneurysm) about 2 years after I stopped the meds. I’m eternally grateful that I wasn’t on max-dose anti-inflammatory meds at the time of my bleed given they can reduce clotting.

As a side note - low cholesterol can actually increase the chances of brain bleeds (hemorrhagic stroke). Maybe it is all related given I was on minimal fat and minimal protein for a couple of years (lol what WAS I eating?! No wonder I lost lots of weight).

Sorry I’m getting distracted here, carnivore, yes it’s great to see others doing a similar diet. I very much enjoy reading others experiences. Hopefully anything I glean from this I can share with others too.

#1190

Wow Andrea, you’ve been through a lot! I’ve never heard that about low cholesterol before; that is interesting to know. My regular keto days were a Whole 30 version of keto. I love reading the comment from everyone here. I feel like I learn something new just about every day. :smile:

#1191

A comment about my current pitiful state, nothing particularly useful but I couldn’t help it.

Is there a thing where a body decides it only gets satiated with meat? I guess there is. It’s my current hypothesis or I just have one of my rare days when I simply can’t get satiated, I am just starving forever. Well, for a few hours but that’s almost the same for me. A few days ago I just needed lots of protein after I surely ate enough food. But it didn’t worked today and I even kept my carbs very low (compared to my simple keto).
I suppose those rare hungry days happen on carnivore too. Do you folks had those before or even nowadays? No idea what the reason is. Once a year or something like that, I can’t satiate my hunger, no matter what, I am not shy, I can eat very, very much but nothing ever helps. I just give up at some point and wait. It’s not because I eat some sugar or lots of carbs. I don’t remember all the details but I just eat the way I normally do around that time except I eat twice as much or more and still feel annoying, strong hunger (I call it starving except when I starved, I wasn’t even hungry. that was nicer. I suffer when I feel I’m starving). My stomach capacity is pretty big and I eat dense food so it’s not a problem. But even if I had a very full stomach, I would be super hungry still, the two things have nothing to do with each other, I don’t even care about the state of my stomach, usually.

Or am I broken? It’s so damn hard to not to be hungry sometimes and very, very rarely it’s fricking impossible. And I don’t accept hunger, never did.
Poor, poor souls who can’t even get satiated because of their strange illness. It must be hell. I would go crazy after a week. Or suicidal.

Maybe I should just stop eating until Friday :frowning: . My SO’s Mom is an expert at cooking meat, she said she gladly make something from the mutton (we go to the farm and then to her, coming back first would slow us down, we would waste resources too… and she has space in her freezer now unlike normally). That will be nice. And surely satiating. But all my protein was good until now… I don’t understand.

Be thankful for satiation, folks. That’s a great thing.
I am sure tomorrow will be better :slight_smile: I was born with this deficit (unrealistic optimism). In the worst case, I can make interesting experiments.

I try not to come until I resume my carnivore trial, I am not a particularly good company now. I eat mutton goulash first, though (satiation effect of ruminant meat in the presence of potatoes and carrots… every day is an experiment if I want). I join the others in their mountly fast soon so I need a very meaty day before that, I believe that helps. So, maybe I start on the 13rd but eat mostly meat (and eggs) starting with the 10th. And it won’t be a long time until February so I guess I will stay on track until that and I eat whatever I want afterwards (I basically do that anyway but I have these stricter trials when my determination and curiosity keeps me from eating certain, not too important at the moment things. It’s easy to do short term).