Am I screwing myself over?

keto
newbies
science
exercise
(Heather Meyer) #1

So… im new(ish) to weight lifting on Keto. When i used to be on Keto, i was swiming laps daily for an hour ( 1 mile swim). I was leaning out and looking really toned. I lost a massive amount of inches.

So i am new to the weight training +Keto and its been 2 months since i began Keto and a little under a month at the gym. I workout on average for 2 hours(I know its too long… im reading body by science right now) and i lift weights and do body weight exercises as well. I do this 3x per week and then i swim 2x3 times per week for a mile each time and then do 1x active recovery walk for 30 minutes on the dreadmill.

Diet wise… i have been doing 20:4 (not the same as OMAD for those curious) and i average around 10-20 Net…not above. And my calories can be anywhere from 600-1100(i do 2x 24hr fasts per week) and (1x 16:8) and 1(no fast) day.

Here is the thing… the scale continues to drop. I have dropped 20lbs in 2 months. Thats good. I was guessing that kind of average roughly per month so im on track. But i took measurements with a tape measure and they dont make sense. My measurements have only gone down on average 0.5 inch in each area. And yet at the same time…all of my clothes are so baggy on me that people say to buy new clothes.

So am i screwing myself up somehow? Is there a reason why the inch loss doesnt seem to corelate to my weight lost? Am i supoosed to be gaining inches cause im in the gym? I am super confused by all of this now. I thought i was doing well and i find that my measurements practically havent changed even though my weight on a scale has…??? Makes me want to cry.

(Robert C) #2

600 to 1100 calories per day plus multiple 24 hour fasts with a heavy workout regime and you are a 5’11” female…yes, you might be screwing yourself over.

Of course,I do not know for sure but, it really looks like “eat less, exercise more”. Which, as everyone knows, will work until it doesn’t.

(squirrel-kissing paper tamer) #3

I wonder if you’re losing muscle, which weighs more (gram for gram than fat).

You are eating few calories, in a small eating window and also including a fast while lifting for hours, swimming and cardio.

(Heather Meyer) #4

I thought(at least this was my understanding)that if we carry mass amounts of body fat stored on our bodies, that we have an ulimited supply of calories available to burn on our bodies for fuel once in a keto adapted state? Isnt that the main reason why we want to be in a keto adapted state? to use calories stored in our fat cells to provide energy? If this is the case…then wouldnt that mean im not in a deficit of calories at all but rather a surplus?

Also… another example… if a person who has WLS such as the “sleeve” is following a high protein low carb diet per Drs orders and can omly take 500 calories in per day over the course of the year but is exercising… and if(are taking in too little calories) and lose weight…would that not mean by year 2-5… there metabolism is lowered and deranged? Reason i ask is… i know many who have had WLS…eaten at a level of 500 calories but there BMR does not appear to be tanked…they didnt gain the weight back when they could eat more. Now maybe they arent working out as hard as me…but they certainly carry more “weight” than me on their bodies due to morbid obesity??

And yes i have heard of Doctor Fungs theory about eating less means burning less means lowered BMR but i have yet to see this theory applied to a WLS patient.

BTW… i am a failed WLS patient and i am missing 85% of my stomach. While most people need a lot more to acheive fullness at one meal… i achieve that much quicker which means in order to meet the calorie level that most do at one meal…i would either
a) have to eat simple carbs which dont fill me up
compared to proteins and fats
b) have to eat multiple small meals throughout the day to obtain that calorie amount
c)eat lots of bacon

The reason i say “failed” is because in the first year i followed the Drs orders and lost half way to my goal and then went through a traumatic event and i began to cheat the system. I over-rided my stomach by eating simple carbs like candy, crackers,cereals,cakes. I stopped getting full and if i did reach it, i would reach for some gravol to take away the nausea of overeating.

Fast forward… i began Keto 2015…did it till 2018…my marriage fell apart for awhile and back to emotional eating…gained 60 in a few months eating simple carbs. Now ive been back at it for 2 months today but i have been adding the gym and swimming as well as fasting. I stumbled into 20:4 one day when i forgot to eat and loved it and never looked back. So i practice that3x week and 24hr fast 2x week and 16:8 once a week and love it. The point being… 500 calories over 4 hours is a lot of food for me when its protein and fat. I thought my body had plenty of food stored on it!

What about the 386 lb guy…he survived a year without food with no ill effects… isnt that what he did? He had fat stored on his body and lived in a perfect calorie balance made my his own fat stores?

I hope no one in no way sees this as defensiveness… I just was under the impression that what i was doing was okay??

(Running from stupidity) #5

+1

#6

You’re putting too much stress on your body is all - take it back a notch.

(Running from stupidity) #7

I reiterate my advice from the other day - stop being so extreme with everything :slight_smile:

#8

Bear in mind that your body will only give up so much fat a day, except under extreme duress (and even then it’s more likely to give up muscle than fat, per evolution). It’s not a simple matter of saying “if I subtract this number of calories, I’ll make up this number in my stored fat.” That’s CICO talk. Let it happen naturally, not by force.

And people with things like the sleeve or other invasive surgery are usually in a position where they cannot eat more than about 500 calories in a sitting. Especially true for people who had their stomachs cut up. But I assume your stomach is normal, and your body knows that. You cannot compare yourself to someone who has had surgery.

(Carl Keller) #9

The 600 does seem low but the 1100 doesn’t sound unreasonable IF she is fat adapted. The question is “How does the OP feel?” Is she hungry and cold all the time or does she have constant energy and little hunger?

(Robert C) #10

I am sorry to hear about your previous troubles.

I would like to respond with 2 points:

  1. I know nothing about WLS or it’s effects so, anything I come up with that conflicts with what you know should be tossed.
  2. My view on keto and multiple 24 hour fasts each week is that on you non-fasting days, you consume about what your daily expenditure is. For example, if your keto has plateaued your weight for a while at 2000 calories per day then to lose more weight, you might go with 5 2000 calorie days and 2 fasting days. The point is to maintain the higher metabolic rate on the non-fasting days. If you instead go low on those days also, I think you risk a slowdown.

As far as the over-one-year-fast goes - he was constantly benefiting from fasting adaptations. The other thing you brought up about the people at 500 calories for a long time. They too might have been positively affected by fasting adaptations. With calories that low their body might not have tried to lower metabolism to accommodate the very low intake. I do not think anyone has found the calorie cut-off between where the body undertakes fasting adaptations vs. tries to slow metabolism to attempt to survive at a perceived new lower intake norm.
Examples of metabolic slowdown for me are all antidotal. Yo-yo dieters that cut calories, lose 20 pounds and then complain that after the cannot take it any more and eat as they did previously - go back up 25 pounds (and find those even harder to get rid of).

(Heather Meyer) #11

I have had the VSG surgery…so i am missing 85% of my actual stomach(no intestines re-routed). I had it done in 2013.

#12

My bad I misread. Then I honestly don’t have advice, sorry.

(Heather Meyer) #13

I dont find myself hungry. The cold issue is q bit of a challenge in that i also have a heart condition which causes me to have lower blood volume and my heart is anatomically smaller than the average heart meaning it must work harder to circulate blood. So my hands and feet do get cold often. They can even get cold if i am out on a summer picnic while the rest of me feels like its dying of heat problems. So its hard to measure that on any given day

(Running from stupidity) #14

Yeah, I find this to be an issue, and that’s without the VSG surgery.

(Carl Keller) #15

The bariatric surgery is probably going to affect your hunger so I honestly don’t know if satiety is a good measure of you eating enough. I suppose if you start feeling like crap, you will certainly know that you are not.

(Karim Wassef) #16

Body composition is a function of many variables. The most impactful in my experience are nutrition, sleep, stress, activity, injury, and relationships. These are clearly also intertwined.

All these elements need balance. Over exercise without enough recovery, rest and nutrition will backfire. Also keep in mind that the body you have is not the body you started out with and you need to listen to the new cues.

I didn’t see your weight anywhere as I scanned again. You mentioned your weight loss but not your actual weight. I find that what works at one weight isn’t what works at another. A better measure may be waist to height ratio to map out your progress. – update – I’m new to the website and I’m learning where to find things. What is CW and GW? I assume CW is current weight?

What is your goal? Do you want to look slim? Athletic? Muscular? Do you want size or strength? Do you want to cut to reveal high definition (abs) or to fit in a particular size ?

I lift too and my experience is that muscle density can offset what the scale data says. If you lose 10lbs of fat and gain 10lbs of muscle, the scale is flat, but the composition is massively different. That’s why I prefer tape measuring unless you have access to a real fat meter. I have a smart scale and the results are mostly water biased garbage in my opinion.

I ve asked more than I’ve answered but I’ve found that answering those fundamental questions was important in my journey.

My advice would be to take a step back and understand your goals and motivations, then restart slowly- go with IF for a couple of weeks at 20g and eat enough fat to get to 1500cal at least. Sleep well (8hrs) and exercise for 45 mins only x 3 times a week. I also find that distressing with mindfulness and healthy relationships plays a key role in getting my body to “chill out”… Call that “baseline” and see how you feel.

If you want to hike things up from there, go slow and listen /measure.

Just my 2 cents. Congrats on your progress by the way. Great going!

(Heather Meyer) #17

Current weight is 242.8 diwn from 265.8 in 2 months.

Goal weight is 175 lbs Ht - 5"11

Goal is to lean out… being an avid swimmer my whole life… i have the broad shoulder structure…virtually no bum and my legs and arms are long and the first place i lose weight is always my arms and legs…so i end up with thin arms and legs but a round stomach. Its last to go. I want to get back into competetive swimming so i suppose im looking for a toned more athletic build. Lets face it… i will never be “thin”. My bone structure is med/large. I take after my Dad… Hips?? Hello…where are my hips? Im losing my boobs…my only decent asset :frowning:

(Karim Wassef) #18

My guess is that you’re losing visceral fat first and that’s not going to show up in measurements since that’s mostly driven by adipose fat. There’s no way to conclusively tell without a DEX scan or something like it.

That’s really good though since disease is linked to visceral fat and improving organ health will make other changes much easier.

I wouldn’t look at the scale as more than one datapoint. Measurements and how you feel should be better indications.

Looking at your regimen, I’d say you’re overworking and not giving your body time to adjust and rest. There’s a myth that you need to exercise to lose weight and it just wasn’t true in my experience. First, focus on a healthy lifestyle, lose the excess fat, become a fat burning machine, focus on nutrition not energy intake … then as your body becomes healthy and balanced, you will find your natural path to athleticism.

Focus of health first… the fat will go… then fitness will come. The inverse is totally not true. Not for me anyway.

This requires more patience but not more time. What I mean by that is that overstressing your body will actually retard your development and it will take longer to get where you want to go. But go gradually and more balanced and it will require more patience now, but the total time will actually be less.

(Karim Wassef) #19

Also if you’re worried about losing your muscle or gains while getting healthy- I had the same concerns and it was ok for me.

Ketones naturally trigger muscle sparing hormones and even moderate activity will signal the body to maintain your muscles. Even moderate levels of protein will be enough. You won’t make gains but you won’t lose either.

For me, I did IF then OMAD then four days a week fasting with water and salts + OMAD on the days I ate. I was 80% fat intake too. The fat melted and I could actually see the muscle that’s been hiding underneath. I was smaller because that fat and water retention makes everything bigger but the strength was the same and the definition was great. I went from a size 44 waist (tight) to a size 32 (loose) - lost 90lbs mostly fat with no strength loss.

One thing to note is that the fat was like padding that actually prevented injury. I could walk around bouncing weights off me and not feel it. Losing that much weight - I began to feel it. So be careful relearning your body and listening to it as you get there.

:smiley:

#20

Awesome progress!