Am I doing something wrong?,,,


(Joey) #22

Thanks for sharing the additional info. Again, I’m no expert and don’t have personal experience with T2D, but my understanding is that - based on everything discussed in this thread above - you’re on a great path to addressing your diabetes and, over time, potentially reversing the metabolic issues you’ve been facing until you changed your diet.

Best wishes! :vulcan_salute:


(Craig Lloyd) #23

Thank u


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #24

As I understand it, T2D involves insulin resistance. Until that resolves itself over time you will probably continue to experience slightly elevated glucose. You did not develop T2D overnight and the damage will take time to fix. Rest assured you are doing the right stuff to fix it.


(Bob M) #25

I’ll be a bit more nuanced. It’s unclear to me what’s happening. Shaun Baker at one time had a super high HbA1c while on carnivore, which made sense to me, as he is a super-human exercising a ton. But now, he shows his blood sugar, and it’s 50 after exercising. I don’t get it. That no longer makes sense.

For many reasons, I’m not overly fond of Dr. Attia. However, I happen to agree with everything he says here:

In particular, morning glucose for us low carb/carnivore people can be affected by when we ate the day before, what we ate, how we got up, etc.

And, for me, exercise. The more I exercise, the higher my blood glucose goes. And by “exercise”, I mean even working around the house. Think traveling from the basement to the second floor many times in one day. My CGM will give me 10, 20+ points higher on my daily value than when I sit all day at work.

So, while I would not be overly concerned about the higher blood sugar, it is pretty high. And weight gain is always troubling if you’re trying to lose weight.

I personally would address this. Perhaps try moving dinners away from sleep, if that’s an issue. Try different amounts of fat. Maybe try eating suet with meat to see what happens. Maybe eat breakfast? Shake things up. See what the outcome is.


(Bob M) #26

So, I keep getting errors when I try to post. I come back, and my material has been saved. But, by then, it might be less relevant, since others have posted. Sorry about that.


(Joey) #27

I’ve been getting errors while attempting to post here for months.
I just assumed what I tried to post was wrong. :shushing_face:


(Craig Lloyd) #28

Eat breakfast instead of having evening meal? Forgive me what’s suet?

Don’t apologise I am always welcome to more responses


(Ian) #29

Can I confirm this data was from a CGM?

I have used a CGM about 4-5 times and they have performed well to track response, but they may not accurately reflect glucose measured by a pin prick. It is my understanding that the CGM probe measures glucose in the interstitial fluid rather than blood and you may get different numbers compared to a blood sample. This is mentioned in the documentation that came with my FreeStyle Libre.

My personal experience using the CGM and comparing its data with the results of a Keto Mojo tester is that 3 out of 5 times I used my CGM, the results were also exactly the same, except for a 30-40 minute lag with the CGM. However, on one occasion with the CGM the results were typically 40 % higher, on a consistent trending basis. On the other occasion my CGM was almost 60% on the low side. Again the trends and changes were consistent with food intake, but the results were consistently lower compared to the Keto Mojo.

I think you can get different results depending on the placement of the CGM needle. Have you tried to confirm the CGM results with a conventional blood and ketone glucose meter. Also, before you worry too much, you might want to try installing a new measuring head in a different part of your arm. Just a thought and HTH.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #30

The value of a CGM is not necessarily the absolute values determined. As noted by @Knnn these may vary somewhat from an actual blood test. High values are high values, however, and the CGM will report high values similarly to a blood test but maybe not exactly the same. In my opinion, that’s not a big deal. I think the real value of a CGM is the daily plot. The closer to a straight line the better. You can take individual blood test hourly all day long and not get the accuracy of the ‘up and down’ recorded by the CGM. For example, a CGM plot that varies by less than a couple of points, even after meals, is a very good indicator of metabolic health. On the other hand, large spikes after meals followed by large drops not so much.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #31

I don’t see replies from our carnivore members about whether such a doubling of serum glucose is typical for new carnivores. @Fangs @VirginiaEdie @FrankoBear @Carnivoor ??


(Edith) #32

Hi. Unfortunately, I never checked blood glucose or ketone levels during my time on carnivore. I’m also not insulin resistant, so I can’t weigh in here.


#33

I have been eating strict keto for 1.25 year and haven’t seen any improvement in my FBG. I went back through old medical records and it seems I have always been 102 - 117 (5.6 - 6.5) despite different WOE and different body weights and exercise regimes.

If you read some of the older keto articles from people like Mark Sisson they will talk about the benefit of adding some carbs at some point to keep cells insulin sensitive.

How much do you eat? I think giving the body a surplus of energy to deal with is more likely to cause dysregulation along some dimension. The fact you are gaining weight would suggest you might need to cut back.


(Bob M) #34

I’m not gaining weight. Never did, until I tried The Croissant Diet, about 6.5 years into low carb. THEN – and only then – did I gain weight.

I’m almost back to where I was before trying The Croissant Diet.

But if you’re looking at morning blood sugar, you’re looking at the wrong thing:

You can see that my morning blood sugar is higher every morning…but my estimated A1c is 4.6.

You might say, “This is an anomaly”. But it’s not:

This shows two different Free Style Libre results, about 16 months apart (I wore a CGM for about that long). I have months upon months of data just like this.

The results are almost identical.

So, unless you put this in context, comparing morning blood sugar is basically useless. You’d also have to compare evening blood sugar, which is more than likely a better comparison.

And, your ketones will vary opposite to this (lower in the morning, higher in the evening).

Is Mark Sisson “right” about adding in carbs? What does it mean to be “right”? Say you add in carbs and get lower morning blood glucose. What does that mean?

If you add in carbs, you SHOULD get lower morning blood glucose. Why? Because your body does not need to be as “insulin resistant” in the mornings.

Is that good or bad?

The studies have not been done. What’s considered to be a “high” morning blood glucose reading is based on people eating very high carb diets. That’s not me, as I’ve been low carb/keto since 1/1/14.

If you’re concerned about blood glucose, and think carbs will solve that, then eat carbs.

But you’re asking questions no one can answer, because studies on people who have been low carb/keto/carnivore for years have not been done. No one knows what’s “good” or “bad” in that context.


#35

Sorry! I was meaning to reply to the original poster who seems to be getting very high blood sugars and said they gained 10kg. I probably hit the wrong button!


#36

I’m thinking about trying Berberine at night. I’d rather not add in carbs but all else equal would rather have lower FBG.


(Craig Lloyd) #37

What’s berberine?

Thank u for all the replies, my morning bloods are higher then most. Of the day but I seem stuck in the 6-7mmol range but I need to get it lower

I plan on starting gym again as of payday but other then that I don’t know what to do


#38

Berberine is an herb that is said to act like Metformin (T2D medicine) in the body. I have seen some people say it helped with blood glucose. I have a bottle but didn’t take it regularly - it bothered my stomach but I think i took it first thing in the morning - probably makes more sense to take it at night.

My FBG was 102 this morning (very good for me) and my ketones were 1.5. I have had only water since then and now at 4PM my FBG was 123!! My ketones are 1.4


(Craig Lloyd) #39

Whenever iv tested my ketones with a tester they never go above 0,2-0,3 so I prolly doing something wrong, unsure what tho?


#40

The point is, blood glucose is very much context dependent . And unless you have an understanding of and an appreciation for these contexts, you will drive yourself crazy and terrify yourself into catatonia every time you prick your finger and see a number you think is “high.”

Michael posted this before:

plus there is alot of info about adaptive glucose sparing you should truly research when it comes to our way of life.

NOW the next thing…dump coffee, tea, creamer and every single thing…even salt…eat meat, drink water…2 weeks and again track your numbers (but remember reading about ‘those numbers LOL’ in that you are not a ‘normal person’ being judged by 'normal old timey carby numbers…you can have some more higher numbers and they are a very normal body swing…but if never truly ‘researched on a person on extreme lc or carnivore’ then what is to truly say your numbers are bad :slight_smile:

go real carnivore cause you are basing on ‘relaxed carni’ which is some plant variation use as in coffee and your tea and some dairy which is not meat, even tho animal, no one is out hunting dairy on the range ya know…man made for us so dump it all and truly, back to massive simple basics is your best start.

I don’t know your medical and more or anything else, but go all in basic as you can and see how you do on tracking and truly learn your numbers might not be all that worrisome in any way…I never track glucose in my life on my LC, extreme LC, my keto, or ever into my carnivore, about 6 yrs and ya know what, I don’t think I have any problems at all HAHA (joke on that one :)) just sayin’ we might be reading way more into things that we think but then research again is our best defense to learn more of course.

I hope some of that helps and ohh, of course how you feel is key…if you feel over the top great, then ya got it made :slight_smile:


#41

I was starting to have low ketones in the morning. I went from a 18:6 type eating window with some nighttime snacking to a strict OMAD with no eating after dinner and my ketones are back up. The other way for me is to consume more fat in the AM. But a lot of people say ketone levels don’t affect their progress so it might not be worth worrying about for you