Alternate Day Fasting turned ZC...back to fasting

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(What The Fast?!) #201

I don’t disagree…but I wonder why others can fast and feel great? I have enough body fat to fast and my body shouldn’t be responding this way. (31-32% body fat by DEXA)

(Ken) #202

It’s a matter of adaptation, speed and degree of which is determined by individual genetics. Tell me, do the women in your genetic line typically gain excess fat in childhood, or does it come later, after adolescence or older? Just an educated guess, because it’s also a matter of family nutritional pattern and activity, but I suspect you may not have been overweight when young.

(What The Fast?!) #203

I was definitely overweight as a kid, even though we ate home cooked meals. A lot of chicken and rice, very little fast food. I have one brother who was also overweight (and still is) and one who has been able to eat whatever he wanted his whole life. I don’t know about women in my family…I’ll have to think about that.

The only things that ever worked for me were taking stimulants or medicine for ADHD in combination with severe restriction and working out.

I gained weight back when I went off my ADHD meds, even eating clean and working out.

#204

What is the significance of being or not being overweight as a child?

(Ken) #205

It can be an indicator as to weather or not you easily develop leptin resistance. It is of course dependent on your family’s nutritional pattern. With all the low fat nonsense out there, children are becoming fatter younger compared to say 40 years ago, so leptin resistance is developing earlier, contributing to the alarming rise of childhood obesity.

You still often see fairly lean children with obese parents, an indicator that the kids have not developed leptin resistance yet. Back in 1970’s childhood obesity rates were much lower. I remember that in my High School class of 264, only about 10-15 of the boys were significantly overweight. I was one of them. Now, it’s much higher. A reasonable hypothesis would be that they carried the genetic trait of rapidly rising leptin resistance when following a Carb based nutritional pattern.

The significance of this is that those without the trait typically lose fat easier, once switching to a lipolytic pattern as their leptin resistance is more easily eliminated. It’s not always valid as an indicator, but is why I always ask if people were overweight as children.

#206

Interesting. So I was very thin as a child but I did not eat much as my family did not permit junk food until after my sibling was born at age 5. I did eat carbs such as pancakes but not every day. Then from ages 6-13 I was normal and at 13 someone in my family commented that I was putting on weight and should be careful (5’3 and 110 medium frame). This started stupid CICO diets for the next 15 years. In my 20s I needed to lose 10 lbs but never did or if I did gained it back. Then at 30 gained a tremendous amount of weight over a period of a some months so that I could be considered obese. Lost part on various carb restricted diets over the years to gain it back

There is a theory that being heavy younger is protective against T2 because you have more fat cells available to store excess so it does not go into your organs as with a TOFI.

@KetoLikeaLady, I am reading Death By Food Pyramid by Denise Minger. She is more of a whole food natural source than keto but she looks at the various diets out there. She has a couple of pages of recommendations based on various generic traits you have such as ApoE, amylase receptors. It may be worth your doing 23 and me or one of the other DNA tests to see what might work best, assuming you are comfortable with that

(What The Fast?!) #207

I’ve done the test. They recommended a “balanced” diet with carbs, protein, and fat. My partner was recommended a “low carb” diet, based on his genes. Keto has worked like a CHARM for him. I’m actually considering adding carbs back on my refeed days - nothing crazy, but maybe some fruit or resistant starches - to see if it helps me lose. My ketones are through the roof from fasting, but I still struggle to drop lbs. Even before keto, I’d done low carb and it never made much of a difference.

#208

Denise says if you have average or above average number of amylase receptors you may do better including more carbs

I think you can download your results into prometheus? and get even more information if you have not

(What The Fast?!) #209

I tried veganism and it was miserable. I was SOOOO bloated and gassy for MONTHS.
A friend of mine is doing it and is happy as a clam. :slight_smile:

(Ken) #210

The term “Balanced Diet” is very subjective. Nutritional pattern should be evaluated by the resulting dietary hormonal secretion pattern. A pattern that includes both fat and carbs in fairly equal amounts is hardly Balanced, but is actually massively lipogenic, with the resulting synergistic state causing massive, chronic, insulin release and suppression of glucagon secretions. The typical recipe for health disaster.

A true “Balanced” pattern is when the body is able to secrete either glucagon or insulin with equal efficiency, in the absence of detrimental effects from chronic patterns. Generally, this usually means a fat based pattern with occaisional Carb intake for for metabolic purposes.

For you, I suspect you’ll need to go for full glycogen recompensation a time or two to get things moving, in order to get out of the Starvation Response. Then, you will probably be able to get by with lesser, periodic, partial recompensations to keep things going.

(What The Fast?!) #211

Hi all! Here’s a quick overview of my stats on this new fasting focused regimen:

3/26/17 SW keto 149 (32% BF)
10/15/17 SW for this fasting protocol: 153.7 (34% BF)
10/21 147.7 (31.5% BF)
10/24 150.8 after feasting
10/27 147.0 just before ending a 72 hour fast
10/29 151.9 (after feasting the last 2 days)
Have fasted: 96, 48, 48, 24, 65, 20, and am now doing a 55. I’m refeeding with either one or two meals and making sure they’re keto. I do plan to do a carb heavier refeed this week to see if that helps (per @240lbfatloss suggestion).

Re: the gastroenterologist…I went to see her and she said - “75% of women are constipated. I don’t know a lot about keto other than it makes constipation worse. We can test the bacteria in your gut but there’s nothing that we can do to fix it even if we see there’s an overgrowth of something.” …so basically, she said to just deal with it and that it isn’t likely that it’s the reason I’m not losing weight. She said I could just have slow transit time in my intestines and it is what it is. She suggested that I take Miralax to lessen the constipation and the impacted bowels. Soooo…that’s medicine at its finest I suppose. @DaveKeto If digestion is part of my problem, I guess a gastro doctor isn’t the best person to help me. …ugh.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #212

Chocolate contains a class of chemicals called methylxanthines, of which caffeine is one. They are all stimulants and some of them are also bronchodilators, such as theophyilline and aminophylline. The prominent methylxanthine in chocolate is called theobromine. I don’t believe chocolate is caffeine-free, although the level may be less than many people have been assuming.

#213

Thank you! I’ve been wondering about this.

#214

I’m not an expert in this area by any means, but my guess is that there are people out there that understand the gut and gut biome better than most gastroenterologists.

Are you still feeling weak on fasting days? Is this a WOE (or WOF?) that you can live with for a while?

(Dave) #215

I’m sorry to read this, Andrea. Chronic constipation is such a terrible problem. I can’t imagine how disappointing it had to be to wait on finally seeing a gastroenterologist only to hear she presumes there isn’t much that can be done. :frowning:

While this isn’t long term advice by any means, I actually find my most “loose” BM cycles are when I’m downing a lot of my home-made keto pizza. I’ll PM you the private video I made for my patrons over at my Patreon where I demonstrate cooking it. I’m sure a key reason for this effect is the fiber content given it uses psyllium husk as a key ingredient of the crust.

(What The Fast?!) #216

Thanks :slight_smile: I’m also going to try drinking saltier water!

(What The Fast?!) #217

Alright everyone…here we are, 15 days in to this “fasting focused” lifestyle. Since Oct 15th, I have done: 96, 48, 24, 65, 24, 24, 65, and 49 hour fasts…and I’ve only lost 4 lbs (and clothes not fitting looser either). How is this humanly possible???

I’m thinking of signing up for IDM…the cost has gone up to $1000 USD…worth it? Probably.

(Doug) #218

2 pounds per week, Andrea. That’s not bad. :slightly_smiling_face:

Your body does seem quite resistant to losing weight, but you’ve kept on, and are getting good results, even if at a pace that feels slow. Your approach has been thoughtful and wide-ranging, and I don’t know about IDM - would they have some ‘magic’ that you haven’t touched on yet?

(Arlene) #219

4 pounds lost in 2 weeks; how can you not be happy with that? 2 pounds per week is over a hundred pounds in a year. Could it be your expectations are a little high?

(What The Fast?!) #220

Ummmm…I have eaten like 4-5 meals in a period of 2 weeks, so yes, my expectations are a little higher. ALSO, this is just getting me back to the weight that I was before starting keto 7 months ago. :joy:

@OldDoug Yeah, I think it’s basically paying for having a support team, which I’d say I have here. :slight_smile: