Allergic to Plants

(UneTomate) #1

Hi everyone,

Just looking for some advice/support.

To cut a long story short, I have experienced numerous health problems after a bad car accident a couple of years ago. Eating had become ridiculously uncomfortable, so I got some allergy (IgE) and intolerance (IgG) testing done. I have had longstanding problems with milk and wheat since teenage years.

Of the allergens I was tested for, I came back as allergic to every plant food on the list. (18 total. I guess that explains why I’ve been sick all the time.) The only foods showing no reaction were fish, meat and animal produce.

Which leads me to the carnivore diet. But I’m also intolerant to cow’s milk, eggs, chicken.

I’m honestly overwhelmed and at the end of my rope. It’s hard to describe how ill it makes me feel just to eat. Meat does go down easier, but such a big change in my diet seems…undoable. I don’t know how to start. I’ve tried keto before but couldn’t stick to below 20g carbs because I would get to feel really low and depressed. And right now eating only meat makes me exhausted.

I am working with professionals, etc to try and figure this out. But I need some real people with experience. I know there’s a lot of good info on here but I had aTBI which makes reading and writing difficult.

Any help or suggestions welcome. This is just the latest blow in a long fight to get this body to stay alive and I’m feeling exasperated and overwhelmed.

TIA

(KM) #2

What you may be thinking about is called a “Lion Diet”. It’s basically ruminant meat (typically beef and lamb), salt and water. Period. This is definitely extreme. It’s usually used to either help heal the body or as an elimination diet to identify allergens.

There are people who choose the Lion Diet as a permanent way of eating. Beef has an excellent nutrient and protein profile.

I know this isn’t very helpful, but I’d say if you’re going to try this … try to get excited about this experiment you’re going to embark on. I can see that it would be easy to be sad or exhausted or anxious about the idea of giving up practically all foods except these one or two items. It doesn’t have to be forever, it’s not like they’re going to stop making other food, but if you give this a couple of months, you could see a huge change. There is a carnivore thread on this forum that’s very supportive, as well as an area to create your own journal if you want to keep account of what’s going on.

I wish you luck and better health. :smile:

(Bob M) #3

Can you eat pork, lamb, fish, etc.? Bison? Duck? Goose? Deer? Unfortunately, some of these can get expensive.

I suggest trying, as suggested by @kib1, the lion diet for a while. Then try raw milk, see what happens. Cheese from raw milk. A2 protein cheese (from goats or sheep).

(Edith) #4

It’s possible you have a gluten intolerance that led to leaky gut over the years. Leaky gut makes us more susceptible to food allergies and intolerances, autoimmune issues, etc. Leaky gut could explain why you are reacting to almost everything.

If you do try the lion diet, it is possible that your gut may heal over time and you might possibly be able to slowly reintroduce other foods.

How long did you try keto in the past? Did you do it long enough to become fat adapted? It takes about two months (give or take) to become fat adapted. When first going low carb or carnivore, our muscles get depleted of glycogen which make them feel like lead. Everything is an effort. That feeling takes time to go away and it doesn’t happen overnight, it is gradual.

If you really feel you can’t do carnivore because of your mental health, can you handle rice? That is something that rarely causes food intolerances. Maybe meat and rice for a bit to see if you can heal your gut. Also, look into bone broths. Those are considered healing to the gut.

Edit: You may find that if you stick to carnivore long enough, it could help your TBI. I think it is Dr. Dom D’Agostino who has done research with TBI and ketogenic diets.

(Bob M) #5

When I was trying a targeted keto diet (eat carbs after exercising), white rice (noodles) was the thing that worked. Other things like spaghetti squash, sweet potato, etc., caused issues for me.

You’ve reminded me that I have frozen bone broth I should be drinking.

#6

When I serve rice to my husband and son I use whole grain brown rice and I cook it a day ahead to give it 24 hours minimum to chill in fridge before reheating and serving. This modifies the starches and it has less impact on insulin or blood sugar when digesting. We make a big batch once a week and they use it all week long from fridge. So it’s a bit healthier that way, and while hard to calculate true macro based on impact, it would make it more Keto friendly.

(Edith) #7

I have a feeling the OP would want to start with white rice and move up from there if he can handle it anyway.

(UneTomate) #8

Hi everyone!

Thanks a lot for your replies.

Unfortunately I’m quite highly allergic to rice, so that’s not an option for me. It seems I am allergic to all grains but need more extensive testing to confirm this.

I will have a look into the lion diet. Is that similar to the one popularised by Jordan Peterson and his daughter?

I have tests in the pipeline that will indicate leaky gut, SIBO, etc. So hopefully will have a better idea exactly what’s going on once they come back. But I believe it’s probably something along those lines. Had some abdominal trauma in the crash which probably hasn’t helped my internal organs very much.

As for the low-carb blues, I just felt very…blah. Not sad, but not excited about anything, not interested in anything. Could give or take being alive. I can’t remember exactly how long I did keto but definitely a few months, enough to get through the initial anguish and feel fat adapted in my digestion/hunger. Is feeling low part of the adaptation process?

I have heard good things about bone broth. Does it need to be made from organic bones?

#9

I wonder if the chilling method before eating it would change how the body responds to it???

(KM) #10

Yes. I hadn’t heard of him til you said this but looking it up, that’s exactly the Lion Diet.

#11

You have a lot going on right now. These are not diagnostic of hypersensitivity or allergy, but of sensitivity and intolerance, as well as inflammation. The tests are some what controversial as the results are commonly not reproducible and are not as reliable as elimination diets for uncovering food sensitivity. Thus I would start with an elimination diet. (www.) You may find you are just gluten sensitive. If you are not diagnosed with celiac disease, you may be gluten sensitive and not gluten intolerant. Those who truly have an allergy to gluten have celiac disease, which is cause by an autoimmune response to proteins found in wheat and other grains. Lot of info on the www.
Family history of gut issues?

I would also look into your gut biome. Look at medical studies about recolonizing your gut biome with real food. Leaky gut comes to mind as well.Most of what you list can be resolved by doing this, including lactose intolerent. You have probaly been on a number of meds and antibiotics over the last few years as well. This can play havic with your gut.
Wishing you nothing but the best in health

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #12

A couple of possibilities to look into: First, are you getting enough salt? We tend to be healthier when we get between 10 and 15 g daily. Second, have you had your thyroid tested? Third, are you eating enough? Keto and carnivore should be eaten to satiety; restricting calories is counterproductive. Especially be sure to get enough protein and fat.

(Edith) #13

:woman_shrugging:

(KM) #14

I was about to respond “probably not, it doesn’t change the chemical composition” … and then i realized that I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. :rofl:

Seriously, I have no idea why chilling creates resistant starch or what any molecule really is, other than a specific chain of carbon and hydrogen atoms, or why these molecules have such insanely different effects on the body. So, :woman_shrugging: , indeed!

#15

That seems very high. I am definetly not a fan of DiNicolantonio’s book, but he recommended 3000-4000mg of sodium per day.

(KM) #16

NaCl, or sodium?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

Four to six grams of sodium, which is 10-15 g of table salt.

(Bob M) #18

I don’t recommend doing too much research on this. The amounts that actually occur from cooking then cooling then reheating are pretty small.

There’s only a 1 gram benefit here:

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Note: I find it incredibly hard to believe that 1 extra gram of resistant starch would cause a 25 point drop in blood sugar. Can’t see the actual study though.

#19

After all I’ve read about it (other studies in addition to this one), I think it makes a worthwhile difference. I’d rather more grams avoid absorption and therefore avoid being turned into glucose and go to my large intestines to feed my healthy bacteria.

Here’s the above study you linked to in full in pdf form:620.pdf (537.5 KB)

Not sure if it’s posted correctly. I have that study saved in my files on my phone and tried to upload it.

@ctviggen will be interested in your thoughts on the actual study.

Another thought: this particular study only tested for white rice. But I know from another chart I found a couple years ago showing the GI and GL for various foods including brown rice and white potatoes that the resistant starches present in brown rice after cooling is about 3g, not 1.65g. We don’t eat white rice at all anymore due to it being so empty (part of all the “whites” that we gave up,) and whole grain brown rice is a healthier choice. I wonder why they didn’t test using a whole grain rice? Anyway I’m certain the results would be even better had they used brown rice. I just don’t know the value of resistant starches already present in fresh cooked brown rice that hasn’t been chilled to compare.

I also wish I understood better the relation to total starches. Are all starches also carbohydrates? Or are some not carbohydrates? In the study total starches in 100g serving was 31.6g, but there are 3.3g of fiber, 34g total carbs, and are any of the other starches that make up the total naturally not prone to digestion or made up of other things that would make them unavailable to absorption and becoming glucose? Or does the full 31.6 get absorbed and turned into glucose in its entirety? If so then yeah I get your “pffft what’s 1g” reaction. Lol The chart showing the mean blood glucose levels in response to ingestion over time looks like a minimal difference yet they speak of it as if more significant. The blood glucose levels at 45 and 60 mins after ingestion of test rice II were significantly lower compared with the control rice. But I’m not seeing it. Is 5.83 mmol/L really that much lower than 6.49 mmol/L? (60 min diff) Or is 6.72 mmol/L really that much better than 7.23? (45 min diff) I have never been diabetic and never had to understand blood glucose levels so maybe I just don’t understand how big of a difference it really is?

Anyway, this is empty white rice and I’d rather see it done with whole grain brown…

(Bob M) #20

Thanks for getting the study. I have the same issues you do. Way back when I started, the “in” thing to do was to take potato starch and prebiotics, and that was supposed to allow you to manipulate your biome. The problem was there was no way to accurately test it and you really didn’t know what was going on.

What they did in the study to get the 25 “point” glucose difference was use AUC (area under the curve):

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This is the mean blood glucose (I assume from all volunteers, except for that one who had the audacity to work out before the breakfast of white rice):

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For “significance”, they must be using p values or something like that, as to my eyes, nothing looks significant.

They say this:

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Like you, I wonder (if the blood results really are meaningful) if there’s something close to but not quite resistant starch, because it seems like 1 gram of resistant starch wouldn’t be meaningful.

They didn’t eat just rice, though:

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A 60g/2 ounce omelette? That’s less than one egg. I wonder why they just didn’t have them eat just rice?

I don’t know what to say about this study. In particular, when I was wearing my CGM, my blood sugar would go from whatever it was to high to back to where it originally was in 1 hour. I don’t think I ate rice during the entire year+ that I had my CGM, so I can’t know what would happen. But these thin folks still don’t get back to their beginning blood sugar in 2 hours. It would be interesting to have CGMs on them to see what their daily patterns were – maybe they are naturally higher at lunch? (My blood sugar was highest in the morning, though I did not eat breakfast and was keto.)

They went from 87 to about 130 (highest reading, 7.23). At 60 minutes and 120 minutes, they also had wildly divergent blood sugar: 5.33-7.10 is a lot. To me, this means that hidden in there were people who were insulin resistant. The so called TOFIs (thin outside, fat inside).

Anyway, I’m not sure what to make of this study, other than if you want to heat and cool rice then reheat, you’ll get some resistant starch benefit. Not sure how much that will matter, though.