We have found our poor pine (the one that has too many other trees around it so it has a weird shape, barely getting sunshine. We got it with the property, very bad positioning… the blood hazelnut didn’t help though but we had no idea how big that becomes in no time…) half barren, covered with caterpillars! We took them off and brought them to the hens nearby and visited the small goat kid too, it’s a very pretty and a bit shy one.
Then I researched. It turned out they aren’t real caterpillars but pine wasp larvae. Wow. So that is a thing.

My day was nothing like my previous ones. I was a bit hungry at lunchtime so I ate a simple meal, this and more (another egg, more pork, not more ham):

I had creamy coffees and very little Greek yogurt too. And I was satiated at dinnertime so merely drank some more coffees (and took a painkiller as coffee didn’t help with my headache. neither did the stupid pill).
It’s 11pm now and I am still perfectly satiated… Yay! I had my minimum protein and about half as much fat. So it’s a quite low-cal day. It is so great not to be hungry after eating a lot anymore. The leanish pork wasn’t the best food I ever had but I easily ate more than a pound of it at once :smiley: Oh I ate a bite of fish too, with the yucky sauce, I won’t buy that again, I may love smoked mackerel but if it’s tinned fish, it doesn’t matter if it’s mackerel or herring and the latter type has way more options and we actually love some flavors. We eat it once per month at most, one tin for both of us and Alvaro gets the bigger part especially from the sauce (I did my best to leave my little fish with the least possible amount).
I can use mirelit fish so no sauce (Alvaro’s pizza has the pizza sauce anyway) but I still like the convenient tinned fish for emergencies. And maybe his pizza as the Asian flavored one is beloved by him (I like that too but I can live without it just fine while he doesn’t care about some extra sugar, it’s not so much and he is a high-carber anyway).

Cold days continue, we give up and start heating tomorrow… There will be rain too, forecast says. For days. :frowning:

Indeed but there was carnivore-ish mentioned :slight_smile: And my carnivore-ish has a lot to do with carnivore anyway while it has little to do with keto except it is keto just like carnivore is keto.

I don’t really see the difference. When one considers carnivore, it may be quite important to know what carbs one can handle and how much and one may not know what would work, we even change. Even on carnivore there are plenty of different carbs (or at least a few) but one may consider carnivore, maybe even the stricter versions but it turns out adding some carbs is better and it may or may not stay carnivore. When it’s figuring out, it’s even totally relevant to carnivore. When one adds plant stuff and not just the tolerated ones and decides on them, that may be different though I personally (and I am biased, sure :D) consider carnivore-ish still close enough. Definitely way closer to carni than normal keto. Most carnivores eat plant matter, a wee bit more doesn’t seem a big deal to me. Especially when it adds almost zero carb while carnivore items easily add a ton and even condiments and spices may add more and that’s already plant matter.

I am not sure I was clear, forget it if I wasn’t.

It was so much simpler to be a vegetarian, that was clear except the cheese thing :smiley: And I didn’t care about that so I probably wasn’t a vegetarian but almost. Better than many. Carnivore is way more allowing (coffee, spices, even some condiments etc.) or else it would be too strict for too many who are close enough otherwise. Makes sense, the vegetarian diet allows almost every edible items, after all. Just a few animal food groups are out, that actually may bother many people :smiley: It didn’t bother me much until I figured out keto isn’t enough. Now a meatless day isn’t a very tiny challenge (I could do it but why would I? except if it’s a fast day but I had none since I tried out carnivore. my only meatless carnivore day didn’t end well but at least I got experience about it :smiley: maybe I will try it again, I have better chances now. but it makes little sense and it wouldn’t be so great so my motivation is around zero).

It is to me. I do except some level of tidiness. I enjoy some level of order. I plan to do that… So I disappoint myself. But let’s not talk about it again and as I thought and wrote about it, I finally WILL tidy it up real soon. It always will have a bit too much paper everywhere but there are different levels of mess… The current one is a bit too high to my liking. It could be much worse but much better too.

{It got too long again. I just plan to pop in as I have a photo and report about my great day food wise and things get out of hand. But I will try harder.}


@Karen18: My absolutely best wishes for Sian!!!

Understandable, it’s snack type. Or side dish, accent, entree or second course… Though I never ate much bacon at once and IDK how that works for others… But my main food is fresh red meat :slight_smile: At least on/near carnivore. I am physically possible to get satiated by other things but meat works best I think.
Pretty crunchy bacon, by the way. And cheddar is nice, I haven’t eaten any since ages, usually too expensive here and I am just as fine with zillion other kinds. Take my cheese away for a week or two (I won’t even particularly resist, I can live without it - except when I fancy cheese whisps) and I will enjoy any normal kind to bits.

(KM) #164

I think a more useful term, also made up, is “ketovore”. I’m comfortable defining myself that way: focused on very low carb, ok with plant foods that make it in (a bit more than “relaxed carnivore”. I don’t go out of my way to put plants in my diet, but if they show up and the carb count is low enough, they’re ok to me.). I’ve contemplated carnivore but I won’t pretend that’s what I’m doing at the moment.


we don’t eat plant carbs. see you are putting your eating and how you eat straight onto the carnivore plan and other people and making this lifestyle fit you and your style. you are off on how the real carnivore plan goes down for others cause you aren’t us who can not walk into eating any plant carbs and have dumped all that other lc or keto plans will allow. just allow us carnivores to be us :slight_smile: works best that way. don’t assume we eat plant carbs, we don’t ‘’‘eat’’’ them in meals at all. always said what works for you works, let our lifestyle work for us.

----------------SO I wanted shrimp so I made a lb.
omg so good

Get this, I usually add a tablespoon of Old Bay Seasoning to it when I boil them.

(Yes it is a condiment. Yes it is 0 carb. Yes it is a plant matter food condiment but it is not ‘eating a meal of it’ but it is the tiniest amt for flavor and I DO WELL on it and it doesn’t even come into play in life for us carnivores on what little we can add and thrive personally…I wish this could be understood actually better out there for those who don’t live this plan.)

well anyway, I made them and thought, damn when was the last time I used Old Bay?? I haven’t put it into my shrimp water when boiling in quite a few months easily…see that, I don’t like or need that taste anymore. I dumped it unintentionally actually…and that is what carnivore does, we move forward, change and thrive :slight_smile: I probably will never use a tablespoon of Old Bay again in my life as with other condiments I dumped along the way.

zc all the way baby


that is a more useful term for sure. It also shows others where you stand on how you eat and how you understand that difference of the 2 plans easily. not confusing what the real deal carnivore plan is about also. You are doing well, finding your personal way. cool

(Geoffrey) #167

No plants in my carnivore life.
Just bison ribeye and eggs.

(Karen) #168

Thanks everyone Sian is fine and baby fine too… still waiting… and happy…

Foody pics for yesterday and today

Went toboganning and it was over and done with too quickly… we were first people in at 4pm and so there were no queues. We only bought 3 rides each as weren’t sure how long it would take. In retrospect should have got 5 rides as we would have had plenty of time to fit them in! Hey ho got home about 6.45pm and had eats.
20240420_155438 i’m in the flurescent jacket lol
Today got into town to sort out the EE dongle and was informed by the manager that anyone could have done it for me on Thursday :roll_eyes: anyway it is done now. I came back home and had pork chop for lunch followed by sautèd chicken in butter. I have not long had the scrambled egg which had pink salmon in (Tinned). I am not over keen on tinned salmon but it was actually very nice and quite filling.

Off out dancing this evening to Ibstock which about 35mins drive.

(Robin) #169

Toboganning, babies, and dancing… life is good.

(Megan) #170

Hey Fangs, I am noticing the same. I’ve never used a lot of condiments but I’m finding I use less and less as time goes on. The only thing left is a wee bit of cajun seasoning on my ground beef.

As for “plant carbs”, well I guess the instant coffee I drink is made from a plant carb (sorry to all you coffee connoisseurs who may be screwing up your faces at the mention of instant coffee lol), as is cajun seasoning, but I don’t count them as plant carbs per se, just part of my relaxed carnivore.

I’ve eaten very low carb (milk sugar carb, not plant sugar) greek yoghurt fairly often in the past but not nearly as often now. Tastes/wants are changing over time. It’s interesting to observe. My food shopping list is ridiculously short! :grin:

(Megan) #171

I agree. To be honest, I find the term difficult to deal with when I come across it here. Some days it’s not easy eating the way I am, especially when I’ve also recently stopped smoking. Stress happens and my 2 instant responses to it are gone. I’m proud of myself but that doesn’t mean I don’t struggle sometimes.

Ahhh, I’ve never heard this described in such a clear, awesome way. Makes so much sense. Thanks Fangs!


I have gone to beef or lamb, mainly beef, air-dried beef, and eggs, butter and salt. Some coffee. I drink beef bone broth as well, sometimes. 2MAD.
I dumped heavy cream, cheese, spices, have had one day with bacon, most others over these two weeks without. So, I’d say it is the dairy change, but I still eat butter.

I am determined on my sleep and have taken over managing my own timetable. I found a way to take it away from my managers at work using my leave entitlements and they can’t do a thing about it, except huff and puff. We have had a long, dry autumn of beautiful blue sky days but no rain. So I have been out in the sunshine a lot doing physical things. All those factors are other inputs. I think taking over my workload is key.

But I was in the South African biltong shop yesterday and spoke to the owner. he had made Spek Wors, which is beef sausage with German style bacon. He uses no fillers and a sheep intestine casing. So they were all-meat and fat sausages. They were in links and I ate 8 of them. They were nice, quite smoky from the speck.

The World Surf League (WSL) is in town.


Most carnivores do, no problem with it. Coffee is plant, spices are plants. I get it, it’s not using plants as food but it’s plant matter. Vegetarians don’t even eat a drop of animal stuff willingly, most carnivores aren’t that strict. I totally get it, obviously :wink: And I do know there are very strict carnivores, we all know about them.

No, no, I don’t eat (or even want or plan to eat) carnivore, never said that! I eat carnivore-ish or near carnivore, sometimes even keto, low-carb or even higher-carb (chances tend to be lower as the carbs go up)! Okay, there are occasional stricter days but it’s not my default woe. My default woe is carnivore-ish, I am sure I said that many times. Not considered carnivore even by me though I like to call my carnivore-ish to be safe anyway. It’s unlikely I can avoid ALL plant matter and I typically go a bit further even in my strictest times so it makes sense just to call it carnivore-ish so no one can say I said untruth! :smiley: And the above (carnivores eating plant matter) has nothing to do with my own diet at all, just what I saw from carnivores. Almost exclusively animal food with teeny tiny plant matter and even that is very restricted (spices, condiments, drinks), not what I do on carnivore-ish. That is a tad more and still serious restriction on the amounts, kind of plant matter and even the reason for it.

I don’t even know why you don’t know about things I wrote so many times about. Oh well, I will just write it down many times more, you can imagine it’s no problem for me!

Your post made it more clear to me what ketovore is, thanks!
Ketovore doesn’t often suit me, my default must be carnivore-ish. That is stricter as I only add a really tiny plant matter when it’s really, really uncomfortable, feels wrong and practically impossible without.
It works for me best and I need this attitude as well. I am unsure how much plant ketovore “allows” but it’s probably would be a slippery slope for me. And anyway, I suppose ketovore has mostly vegs as extra stuff? I don’t want vegs even when I go very off. I suppose I still don’t know what ketovore is but I have my carnivore-ish and it’s good enough for me.
Sometimes I do something plantier that I don’t even call anything… I just need a quite low average non-animal net carbs, after all and peace of mind too.

No tracking - and not carnivore(-ish) yet, I restart tomorrow no desire for meat or eggs, that would make carnivore tricky and I can’t handle hardships now, took a break. Thankfully very low hunger. I obviously ate my pork and some eggs as it’s not like I have some tempting other food around me (Alvaro made chicken breast/veg curry, I didn’t like that even in the past. I tasted it, nope, I rather eat my boring lean pork and other things)… But how much protein? No idea. Probably not much fat (but not little… whipped cream is awesome even when it’s not lactose free so not sweet. and I had added fats too. I am not strict even regarding that now), meat below a pound a day… But I need back my carnivore-ish as when I don’t get much joy from my meat and eggs, I start to add peanuts and that isn’t what I should do…

I had very headache-y days, pills and coffees didn’t work. But it’s better now.

I run out of my lean pork but I find it boring anyway so I will eat fattier pork for a while, then fatty fish, turkey, I want/need a proper carnivore(-ish) time for a while. So not this eating as lean as possible thing for now. Maybe I overdo it sometimes. Tricky as I never feel when I will get bored of it, I wrote about that already. And when I cook like 1kg lean pork, I like to eat it up even if I add some fattier items (as I need to anyway)… So I easily overdo it if I don’t consciously cook fatty meats too. I still have 3 packages of pork chuck, I should use those!
Will I ever do these things right without much extra thinking…? But I can’t always buy fatty pork locally on a good price so I am careful with it… And my lean meat training made me enthusiastic - but I never will prefer lean meat in general. Sometimes I do, for a meal.
I need bigger variety again, not waiting for boredom and I think I would love some stew-like, sauce-y pork dishes. Just fried pork doesn’t work for very long. I love it for a while but eventually I get bored. Especially if it’s leaner. And boiled meat in soups isn’t any better.
So I will make new recipes somehow. I have no idea how to do it on mere carnivore but I saw ideas and I always loved experiments.

I can relate.
In the beginning I used so much (sugar free) mustard… Goes well with (boiled and other) eggs and sausages and I ate a lot of those…
I noticed I used less and less and lately I realized I run out of mustard weeks ago (the last little bites lasted for soooo long) and felt zero need to open another… I ate it every day in the beginning and couldn’t imagine life without it!

I always preferred that too. My instant coffee (I figured out which I love best and just buy that) is way tastier than any other coffee I ever drank :smiley: And anyway, more convenient (more expensive too so I changed my ways but I do enjoy the instant one better. but even that isn’t really good without cream).
I was choosy about my teas (only unflavored leaves, basic - even if I break it for reasons but even then it’s leaves in paper and not those abominations I don’t even want to talk about) but coffee? :smiley: Nope. Whatever works for me. But it must be pure coffee. One should have standards and I have tastes too. I can’t imagine how people think it’s a good idea to buy something with minimal coffee, lots of sugar and weird things. (And I drank those occasionally in the past. I am not proud of many things old me did.)

I eat less dairy now but I suspect it’s mostly due to my very conscious efforts. I do love dairy. But it helps that I can eat more meat now, I am more satiated and satisfied so I feel less need for dairy (not like it usually helps with satiation to begin with).

How things should be. When one isn’t a Hungarian and can imagine sausages without a ton of paprika. But even I can imagine such ones. Meat and fat and salt, it’s flavorful, no need to add a lot of other stuff!

(E P) #174

Yes. On keto, I could stress-eat plenty. Not on carnivore. That’s surely healthy long-term but it sure is annoying in the frazzled moment!

(KM) #175

:roll_eyes::smirk:. Pass the pork rinds, please.

(Karen) #176

Foodie pics

Dance was okay, we met some people we know, in fact we knew quite a few people or rather they knew us lol :laughing: so we had a good table of socialising! Dance nearly all night… music was a bit patchy but if we have nowhere else better to go to on the next date then we will pop along again!

Not done much today except taking Raymond for a cuppa in the heritage cafe on the canal and then taking him to do a bit of shopping. I had gone out fairly early this morning to get my son in law a gift voucher from the golf shop for his birthday next weekend and did my shopping on way home. As i was at Lidl i popped in next door to the Marie Curie charity shop and dound a beautiful Karen Millen Jacket in a magenta coloured velvet with beading… had to have it :grinning:

Off to bed shortly time is moving on!

(Megan) #177

This is interesting. If it’s not vegetables that make you carnivore-ish, what are you eating that isn’t carnivore? I know you are super careful not to mention the foods here, but you talk often about your tiny bit of this and tiny bit of that, and I’ve often been curious what the this and that is. Mind telling me what they are and blur the words?

I’m also curious about why you track your macros most days. What are you trying to achieve?


Thinking about that popular tune, Row, Row, Row Your Boat.

I am sure there is a lyric in it that goes. “Life’s a butter dream.”



I think community and social support is a key ingredient in the carnivore way of eating.

(E P) #180

@kib1 oooh I temporarily forgot about those :joy:

Celebration steak and shrimp. Today, I found my keto doctor!

I gave the nurse my labs including the latest with TG 62, HDL 104, LDL 265 (my poor OB nearly had a heart attack…) and said I was doing carnivore.

He burst in the door, shook my hand heartily, and said “you’re the healthiest person I will see today!” He explained all about what lean mass hyper responders are, cited Dr Westman, and said we’ll check lots of other heart health markers to be safe. He’s been doing keto 14 years.

(Geoffrey) #181

I hope you know how fortunate you are.
For all of the amazing benefits and healing that my doctor has seen me do he still thinks I’m killing myself even though almost all my markers perfect by their standards.