Acetic Acid and Ketogenesis


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #1

OK, folks, this is very interesting! Also, look at the date. Maybe a couple of tablespoonfuls of vinegar every day…

06%20PM


(UsedToBeT2D) #2

Too much jargon for me, can you give me the layman’s conclusion?


(Robin) #3

Me too. I count on these guys to give me the basics!


(UsedToBeT2D) #4

I just know from experience that eating fermented food like sauerkraut is good for my gut.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

My simplified layman’s takeaway: acetic acid is a short chain saturated fatty acid and is metabolized by the liver to acetoacetate, the primary ketone. The 1940 study records increased acetone (from breakdown of acetoacetate) in dogs and rats. Thus, imbibing vinegar may be a relatively cheap and effective way to increase ketones - ie, the poorman’s exogenous ketone supplement. If you’re already eating a ketogenic diet, acetic acid might enhance ketosis by raising blood ketone concentrations. Apparently, vinegar has other beneficial effects related to obesity and glucose regulation.

In other words: good stuff.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

PS: Please note that I am talking about plain acetic acid here, not apple cider vinegar (aka ACV). I’m currently experimenting with red wine vinegar I bought at Walmart, but even plain distilled white vinegar should have the same ketogenic affects. Whatever, if any, additional healthful benefits that ACV might have are not currently on my radar. Although I would have nothing against the stuff if there are additional healthful benefits. There are multiple topics on the forum about ACV if you’re interested.


#7

Why must the good stuff always taste so bad?


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

I currently ‘sip’ approx 2-3 tablespoons of vinegar mixed in about 3/4 cup (6oz) of cold water. That’s 50ml of vinegar in 250ml water. Nothing special about these proportions other than I find it easy to drink. I find it rather pleasant in fact. I usually drink this within an hour of going to bed. I have not experienced anything upsetting. In fact, by the time I go to bed, I don’t even notice I drank it.


(Old Baconian) #9

How else are you going to know it’s good for you?


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #10

Isn’t bad taste a clue that it is probably not good for you?

P.S.
Just realized that Paul was saying what I said…


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #11

There’s a lot of subjectivity involved here. For example, I don’t find the taste of vinegar ‘bad’ at all. In fact, I like it! I’d guess that’s why I don’t find my current experiment particularly onerous. Keep in mind, though, that I’m not swigging it straight out of the bottle!

On the other hand, I also don’t find plain potato chips ‘bad’ tasting either. But I don’t eat them because I think they really ‘are bad’.

I don’t think ‘good’ or ‘bad’ taste indicates much of anything any more. When our Pleistocene ancestors were eating fat and meat - if it tasted ‘bad/off’ that actually meant it was rotten so don’t eat it. But we’re way past that now.


(Laurie) #12

I’ll try it.


(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #13

Indeed… Taste is very complex.

The natural preference for sweet is because it is an indicator for caloric density which would have been more useful in primordial times before donuts were invented.

Bitter can be an indicator of toxicity, but there are work-arounds for that, like cooking and food combinations that were also not available back when.

Then there are acquired tastess. Otherwise how could we ever get limburger past our nose.


(Ian) #14

If any of you follow the Glucosegodess on Instbrag, you will have seen quite a few of her posts that show the impact of consuming various foods or liquids, such as fibre, vegetables or viniger before eating carbs, will significantly reduce the magnitude of BG spikes. This is based on her self experimentation with a CGM.

For example she measured the BG response to eating a couple of brownies, which kicked her BG up by 60 mg/L from baseline. However drinking 1 tbsp of ACV prior to eating the same brownies only resulted in a 30 mg/L increase. She suggests that drinking vineger or having vinaigrette on a salad will have the same effect.

Plain white vinegar or ACV or balsamic vinaigrette are basically the same thing containing acetic acid. I think Balsamic contains a higher acetic acid content but it is buffered by olive oil and probably some sugars, depending on the product.


(Jane) #15

That’s good to know. We eat a salad most nights - grow my own lettuce indoors with a hydroponic garden - and have switched from the creamy dressings to olive oil and vinegar.


(Jane) #16

I found some red wine vinegar in my cabinet and mixed a little over 2 Tbl in 6 oz cold water and sipping it now. It has a pleasant taste to me, but I’ve always liked vinegar-y things.

If you see any difference from taking it every night, please update us.


(Bob M) #17

Me too. I love vinegar, though at times it makes me “shake” if I take too much at once.


(Bob M) #18

I’ve always wondered how this works. Whey protein, for instance, will perform the same function, but that’s because it’s such an insulin hit that it causes lower blood sugar. I’m not sure how ACV works.

See this, for instance:

Or even better, this one, which also shows the high insulin response:

I tested ACV + water on my blood sugar with pin-prick meters, and got about a 10 point (US) decrease one hour later. But when I got my CGM, I tested (only once) and got no lowered value. So, I’m not sure what’s up.


(Old Baconian) #19

I have to say that it seems a bit odd to be promoting carbohydrate consumption on a site dedicated to a low-carb diet.

The part you leave out of your post is the question of what insulin is doing, which is a highly significant question in terms of metabolic dysfunction. If low serum glucose results from high insulin, that is not a good thing.


(Bob M) #20

I’ve used ACV when I know I’m going to eat high carb, to lower the spike. For instance, it’s someone’s birthday and I know I’m going to have ice cream cake.

But I try not to have hits of carbs like those very often.