About 4 months in, and almost went to emergency today

#1

Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and had been reading posts for the past few days, but I’m really confused and would love to get some help.

I have been on Keto for 3 months and switched to Ketovore for a month. Many health benefits I have achieved, however I have been having joint pain all over the body and lower back pain which seems like kidney pain for the past week. After searching in the forum for tips, I tried drinking a tbsp baking soda mixed in a large glass of water yesterday morning, and had terrible diarrheas 4 times after, then the joint and back pain gone. And continued drinking lemon water with some salt during the day, and a tbsp of AVC mixed in water before bed. However I couldn’t sleep last night, felt extremely irritable and strong heart palpitation and headache all night. Then this morning got up with brain fog and headache, I tried the baking soda with water but only 1 tsp, then felt better, no diarrheas. Then had lemon water with salt through the day. However, around 4pm, I felt headache and brain fog and could not focus at work, then had a full glass of plain water, within about 3 mins, I started shaking, feeling cold, dizzy, lips turning a bit purple, for the first in my life I felt like I’m out of my body. Then my friend gave me a banana and I had 2 bites, I checked my blood sugar 4.3, then waited a few minutes 5.7, then drop to 4.9. Then my friend drove me to my doctor, on the way I had some honey water and when we got there I felt better. I told the GP i’m on keto and told her my blood sugar numbers, she said you need to be careful with blood sugar on keto diet, and asked me to go to the emergency in another place which is 200m away. Then I felt fine when we returned to car and I decided to go home. Later after dinner, I checked blood sugar 5.7, and everything returned to normal.

I really dont know why this happened, and it’s the first time in my life I experienced a hypoglycemia attach. I didn’t add extra salt or electrolytes in my water for the past 4 months on keto, I drunk a lot of plain water daily and everything seemed fine until I felt pain all over my body and then used the baking soda and salt and lemon tips.

Anyone have experienced the same or anyone have any idea what’s going on here? And what should I do now? Thank you and wish you all success in your journeys.

(Marianne) #2

I’m sorry for your experience. That had to be so scary!

I don’t have an idea or answer to your issue. Can you share what a typical day of eating looks like for you?

I’ve been on clean keto for just under three years and carnivore since Feb. Back in the spring, I had been feeling dizzy for several days and had no clue why, but just kind of dismissed it. One morning, as I was reaching up in the cupboard for something, I completely fainted and collapsed to the floor. Banged my head pretty good and bruised my cocsic. Ambulance came, couldn’t get a blood pressure, and took me to the hospital. Long story short, they discovered that my sodium level was super low, as well as potassium. Gave me both through an IV and I stayed overnight. After that, I felt immediately better. I had been drinking between 80-100 oz. of water a day, because I thought we were supposed to. Not so, I found out. Doctor said drinking that much water leaches too much salt and minerals. So, moral of the story is drink to thirst, not to some arbitrary number.

Good luck to you. I am interested to see what others contribute.

(Edith) #3

Please search through the forum for threads about oxalate. It seems that if you have any oxalate build up in your body from eating high oxalate foods over the years, going all the way to carnivore is a sure fire way to put your body into an oxalate dump. Carnivore is the ultimate low oxalate diet because there are no oxalates in meat. The symptoms you had - joint pain all over, lower back pain, kidney pain, diarrhea, and brain fog are all typical oxalate dumping symptoms. One way to know if it’s oxalate dumping is to eat oxalate containing food. If you feel better after eating food with oxalate, you can be pretty sure your symptoms are from dumping.

On the other hand, it could be low sodium. One thing that happens to me on carnivore is that my sodium need goes way up. I need to supplement 2 teaspoons of salt a day on top of whatever salt/sodium is in my food. Low sodium will give me headaches, dizziness (because my blood pressure drops pretty low), cramps and muscle aches (all over), and heart palpitations. So, your switch to ketovore could have increased your sodium need. Even though many long term carnivores like to “brag” that they don’t need salt, there are just as many that need to keep those electrolytes in their diets. Maybe that need changes over time, but for now I would seriously consider keeping the electrolyte supplements.

Finally, drinking a lot of plain water could have leached electrolytes from your body. You don’t need to force yourself to drink water. Drink when you are thirsty. I add salt, a little bit of No Salt, and a little bit of sodium bicarbonate to my water so that the water doesn’t flush out the electrolytes. I am finding I am not as thirsty.

Unfortunately, I can’t comment on the low blood sugar. Was the low blood sugar just correlated with your symptoms and it was really low sodium causing the trouble? You added baking soda, salt, and lemon and felt better. Just from what you wrote, I’m thinking your trouble was low sodium. If sodium is low, other electrolytes get low, too.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

I agree that we need a look at your eating pattern before we can comment on the hypoglycaemia. However, the mantra, “Eat less, move more,” is so deeply ingrained in our psyches that it influences even people on a ketogenic diet, which is supposed to be eaten ad libitum, or in other words, till hunger is satisfied.

The low insulin level resulting from the low carbohydrate intake is supposed to allow hunger and satiety hormones to regulated themselves. If you find that they don’t, then you can take appropriate measures, but you won’t know until you start eating enough food first. But most people on keto find that, at a certain point, their appetite regulates itself and becomes a good guide to how much food their body needs.

#5

dump all the useless tips. drink water…get thru adaption and your body more healed and then you will come out the other side in better form.
Sorry for all that, it has to be scary for sure to get such reactions that an ER visit was needed.

Ketovore is very heavy meat based. Focus on that meat and your ‘keto’ part should be stuff you know you do well on, don’t be experimenting with any veg etc. that you know works against you.

wishing you the best!

(Michael) #6

Sorry you had a bad experience. Just to note though, here are the number ranges, of which you were within the normal range. 4.3 is lower than most, but I would love to walk around with such glucose level.

For the majority of healthy individuals, normal blood sugar levels are as follows:

  • Between 4.0 to 5.4 mmol/L (72 to 99 mg/dL) when fasting [361]
  • Up to 7.8 mmol/L (140 mg/dL) 2 hours after eating
(Bob M) #7

What’s the difference between keto and ketovore?

Those numbers are relative. I’ve hit 3.4 fasting for 4.5 days, with no issues (my ketones went up to compensate). Seen people even lower with no issues.

It’s when you feel bad that there’s an issue.

(Fran adkins) #8

Go to an er or the Dr. Don’t risk your life over keto. Something is not right. Keto may just not be for yoy

#9

Hi guys, thank you all for your replies and sharing your experiences.

So I went to doctor again as still being dizzy and had blood tests done. Turns out I’m low on potassium, and cholesterol 10 mmol/L (super high), and LDL 7 (high), but triglyceride 0.7? (I think maybe fine?). Other things are all normal. The doctor prescribed me some electrolyte powder, I felt back to life immediately after drinking it:)

I see many of you have scary experiences by drinking too much water, which I now understand what I too normally do is very dangerous, especially after 4 times diarrheas the other day. Never again.

I eat healthy ketovore only 2MAD, and I really like it, the only thing I would change is to add in electrolytes in the future:)

(Edith) #10

Thanks for the update. Please keep us informed with how it goes.

(Bekir Sivri) #11

When you are in carnivore diet, the food intolerance to other food can be more sensitive. Personally I am much much better with the lion diet. Just try the lion diet for three days, 99 percent your join and back pain will disappear. no vegetable oil ( I was believed that oil olive is very healthy but I discovered that it triggers my allergy and joint paint, but I am ok with coconut oil) so probably something triggers your joint issue. it can be vinegar, some kind of oil or fruit. I can not tolerate fruit and honey ( something that fructose in it makes me miserable and I hate this situation, because I love to eat outside but I can’t.) Go with the lion diet for 3-4 days, after that add some food one by one. just salt and beef ( ruminate meat) no spicy, no oil ( even brush your teeth without toothpaste, because it contains a lot of chemical also deodorant and shampoo can trigger some kind of auto immune issue). personally I use baby shampoo since it contains less chemical. everyone is different. good luck

#12

I love the idea of using products with less chemicals, will give baby shampoo a try. This is my first time to know there is a Lion diet, lol sounds interesting and I’ll have a look into that.
Ever since I started drinking electrolytes, the back pain and the joint cramps have disappeared. However I found out that eating livers now gives me joint cramps. Maybe because I’ve been eating way too much. I’ll try again in a few weeks.

(Kathy) #13

Interestingly when my Dr. suggested I go Keto, one of the things he made clear was to not over drink water and should I feel light headed at any time, take a good pinch of salt in a glass of water and lay down for 20 minutes-1/2 hour. I have never had to do that, so I guess I’m balanced, lol.

Happy you got it resolved.

(Robin) #14

@Sunlove So… we all love your doctor, sight unseen. Hard crushing here.

(Kathy) #15

Sadly I have just lost him! we are having a hard time keeping Dr’s in our clinic, which is so unfortunate as he was very proactive in convincing the (keto) non believer Dr.'s that this works. He asked my permission to share with them my blood work results after 6 months on Keto and I.F.

Cheers

#16

Sorry for the late reply. I had similar symptoms a few months ago - seems like it was caused by lack of iodine which caused hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). Combo of low carb (no bread etc) and switching to fancy salts with no added iodine (eg Himalyan salt) seems to have been the culprit.

#17

Read The Salt Fix by Dr DiNicolantonio. The kidneys expend huge amounts of energy in an attempt to reclaim sodium chloride from the urine before it is lost. Your body is composed of 75% NaCl at 0.9%. Salt is not the enemy. Jason Fung recommends a regular dose, especially during intermittent fasting. Put a quarter size collection in your palm every few hours and tongue it and let it dissolve. Redmond Salt tastes delicious. It comes from an ancient lake bed in Utah and has a ton of nutrients and beneficial electrolytes. Also, SVT (supraventricular tachycardia, fast regular pulse heartbeat) is helped by Magnesium Hydroxide, which you make yourself. Other salts of Mg will give diarrhea but not this. Mix a 1,000 mg tablet of Mg Malate (OTC) in sparkling water and don’t shake it. Expect major fizz for 2 minutes. Then you can sip it with lemon. with or without Swerve. See William Davis, MD, cardiologist, YouTube videos (dozens) for more data. He has great books: Wheat Belly, Undoctored and Super Gut.

(Robin) #18

You’re In a tough spot. Sorry you’re going through it.
I m guessing you told your doctor about your diet, and used the word keto. Once a doc hears that, they automatically turn into a hammer and keto is the nail. You’ve just handed him an easy solution.

I do not mention my diet except to say I cut out sugars/carbs and restrict processed food. No doctor will argue with that and will therefore look for another probably cause.

I am not saying his opinion is wrong. I am no doctor. But after just 4 months, it’s hard to believe keto wrecked your thyroid. Just my amateur 2 cents worth.