A carnivore FB Policies and advice

(Richard M) #1

I was on a Carnivore FB site. Couple of their policies and advice are:

  1. Not recommend apple cider vinegar or other vinegar. No carnivore expert recommends it. Why no ACV?
  2. CARNIVORE diet rules apply here. Coffee/teas are discouraged. Why no Coffee?
  3. We now know fatty coffee or tea causes fat storage. So MCT oil and HWC are forbidden? Why?
  4. Fat and caffeine combined cause fat storage, and will slow down weight loss. If you insist on drinking coffee or tea, wait 5 hours before eating anything with fat, the half life of caffeine in the body. Is there any truth or research to back this up?
#2

It really is simple.

carnivore is NO plant oils, NO plant products, No supps required unless Dr ordered. NO anything other than animal food source. That is the plan. It is 1000% about animal only intake.

Now some ‘relaxed carnis will eat’ a few condiments like regular old mayo or take MCT cause they think it helps or they take AVC for whatever cause ‘they personally think and experience’ but the path is GET THRU adaption and detox ON animal alone and that is what the sites promote only,

Now people ain’t dumb LOL if they need a tad of this or that and it works ‘for them’ then cool but that advice of a plant oil, or plant supp can easily work SO against another so why advise to do it? cause your journey is not anothers ever on plant additives and it ain’t following the plan concepts on what it takes to heal. Animal kingdom only and walk that time you need to heal and change SO THE sites HOLD very tight to core value. Animal only.

but again we ain’t dumb HAHA We can add in some mustard on a hot dog if we do well, we can add a tad of soy oil in our sardine tins we eat but that is a personal choice on makes.

coffee is caffeine and addictive issues for many but most strict zc sites say ok to coffee if you do well on it.

not sure on you coffee fat thingy LOL but most times it is that caffeine be coffee or tea WILL TAKE or control your appetite as in you don’t eat real food and it takes away your option for nutritious food vs. ‘drinking a caffeine substance’ to take your real appetite away. Hence bulletproof coffee or tea with fat added to stop the kcal intake from ‘real nutrition food’ and yea you are not healing as one should on real food healing vs. you are still manipulating your body thru intake. You could be a few eggs and bacon vs a cup of coffee and we all know that food nutrition trumps caffeine appetite controlled suppression consumption and many people rely on no eating to lose lbs, thus bulletproof coffee by the gallons come into play therefore we ‘don’t diet thru liquid intake’ vs real animal foods.

hope some of that explains a bit and I AM SO into strict carnivore that I LOVE those sites that control very tight, they keep me knowing exactly where I need to be ----------and reminds me of that truly -----but yea I could eat a tin of sardines in olive oil and I ain’t gonna say ever that an olive oil in that sardine ‘gave me any great zc benefits’ cause it doesn’t but I do well on it LOL

Tight ZC into must be out there and I applaud the control. Animal kingdom is the total reason we do this and some plant oil ain’t gonna save anyone truly :slight_smile:

and put it simpler, as in a site that ‘we own and only love blue Mustang cars’ and then a guy who owns a red Mustang comes and says red is great. Gone, banned, cause you don’t adhere to the basic site concept. I know simple thoughts but it is what it is out there on a plan that heals needs to be chatted about in its glory and benefits vs. tweaking. We carnivores never chat tweaking :slight_smile: will ruin most of anyone coming into carnivore or on it truly cause a tweak chatted for one might ruin another truly who need all in animal kingdom advice.

ZC carnivore is food heals. Any manipulation of plant matter is not going to make a huge impact vs what the plan is so eat meat. drink water. So simple.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

The first two points make sense, because vinegar, coffee, and tea are plant products. However, I believe there are several prominent carnivores who drink coffee, though several others I know drink only water.

Rules three and four, as you include them in your post, don’t make sense to me, either. I haven’t seen any data that suggest a bad effect from drinking coffee or tea along with fat. If someone made those assertions here, I would be repeating the Dudes’ mantra, “show me the science!”

ETA: The MCT prohibition might be because, again, the commercial products are plant-based. But I can’t see any argument against cream, except that some people just don’t do well on dairy.

(Vic) #4

Hi Rich.

Allow me to anwer the questions for myself.

I’ve never seen a bottle of ACV run around in a forest, I don’t need proccesed fermented plant juce to be healthy.

Coffee is poison. But I love the stuff anyway and I drink it.

We now know? Really :face_with_monocle: anyway plenty of healthy fat in the animals I eat. MCT oil has no mother with 2 eyes, not for me.

I drink at least 1 liter of coffee a day and I combine it with lots of animal fat in 2 big meals a day.
This made me skinny and healthy. What can I say.

Enjoy your black coffee and eat real food.
A carnivore eats real food from the animal kingdom only. So zero carbs from the plant kingdom.

Its the most simple form of keto if you ask me.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

:pleading_face: If you want to be part of the team, you have to obey the rules of the team. Otherwise, the ‘team’ will ostracize you for not eating ‘real food™’.

#6

“Not allowing plants” carnivore (as it should be if we are clean and strict. except strict carnivores are way stricter than that), I get it.

The coffee+fat = fat storage is BS, I am sure about it. It makes no sense, it clearly goes against the experiences of many of us. Waiting for 5 hours? :smiley: Why? This rule is useless for me. I don’t drink overly fatty coffees, I eat food but I have my coffee together with my fats too (and all the time as well, those are low-cal coffees, usually black), it never seemed to have any effect to my fat-loss. I can’t imagine why it would.
If I had those monster coffees with fat, that surely would keep me from fat-loss - but not everyone, of course.
But coffee is plant so it’s a moot point regarding this stricter group.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

I did a search on “caffeine fat” on PubMed, and the first study that came up was the following. It claims that coffee aids the metabolism of fat. I haven’t read the full text, and I am not sure how reliable this study is, I am only posting the link to show that there is research to suggest that coffee and fat are not an issue.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

Can’t cite anything offhand (maybe later after work), but I’ve also read (more than one) study that claims coffee and/or caffeine enhances fat metabolism. Anecdotal for sure, but growing up (when I did not drink coffee) I never knew anyone who drank coffee and did not also eat donuts who was fat. Even 50 years ago I realized that coffee wasn’t the problem. :doughnut:

#9

Never expect to have common sense out of FB, it’s a wasteland and loaded with trolls and morons.

I’d assume because it’s not an Animal product? A large amount of Carnivore’s seem to sign on to the Vegan like religion of it and have zero wiggle room.

MCTs play by a different set of rules, but aside from the sect of keto that doesn’t believe in calories most people wouldn’t argue that a 500cal coffee is a good idea when you’re trying to loose weight. No shortage of us have found that stupidly high fat intake equals not loosing weight. Keto or not.

(Vic) #10

Not on this forum, everyone can do whatever they like, you’ll get no shame bashing attack here.
I break the rules a lot, never a bad word.

Some are protective over the definition of the title carnivore. Don’t call yourself a carnivore if you eat plants everyday, carnivore is zero plant carbs.

Coffee is not food, its a zero carb drink. Its not forbidden. Its discouraged by many because it contains toxic addictive substances.

I identify as a ketovore. I drink beer saturday evenings, use spices, eat mushrooms and drink coffee.

My own rule is 20gr carbs per week

In practice its more like 20g per month.

#11

Eh, I half agree half disagree. This place has no shortage of it’s biases. True it’s not the shaming/bashing type like you find on FB and Reddit but the majority here are anti calorie, anti tracking, no shortage of anti artificial sweeteners, constantly with the eat more fat, eat more salt without a context to it etc.

I’m with you all day long on the make your own rules and customize it to yourself, as that’s why I also do and I’ve had more more success since doing so than I did doing with cookie cutter keto.

I’m just slightly over that at a little over 5000g last month :open_mouth:

#12

nothing wrong with a vegan eating vegan and adhering to their menu rules of what a vegan is, just like a carnivore plan or what entails keto plan. Problem is when vegans throw blood on other people for eating a cheeseburger or a carnivore throws broccoli and sauerkraut at vegans HAHA

adhering to the plan you choose is key if you want the results that are related to that eating plan others experience…so…nothing wrong with groups that want their eating plans pure. Not polluted off what the plan is all about. At least I see nothing wrong with that. Like minded people who band together and chat the real plan they are doing :slight_smile:

#13

Yes, being strict/pure is fine as long as people don’t become snobs who snubs everyone else.
I understand bias regarding their own woe to some extent but there are no woe good for everyone.
I always was against the “One Right Way”, be it our woe or almost anything else. You know, when someone tells very specifically how everyone else must eat, live, do something. It’s totally religion like (bigot vegans even use the word ‘sin’). I DON’T consider following strict rules religion like at all, just this rigid, closed-minded attitude towards others.
That’s another matter if someone should follow their chosen woe strictly or at all. Some people are great with forcing wrong rules on themselves, that’s very unfortunate. But some people find the right woe and need (or maybe don’t, but handles well) strictness, no problem with being not flexible then. Too much strictness and being too lax both can be quite bad.

(Peter) #14

Why not ask the FB forum concerned?

(Vic) #15

:joy::joy::joy:

#16

That’s carnivore for me: no plant foods. That includes condiments, coffee, tea…

Food addictions are very difficult to shake off. I’ve noticed the worst of all is coffee. You’ll see people get rid of sugar, but not coffee.

Therefore, it is accepted by many omnivore-carnivore-ish people.

I also wonder about the cooking and the exercising part of it all.

Our ancestors from 3.3 million years ago until, say, 500k years ago ate raw food and exercised a lot. Cooking changes food. Hunting without the modern weapons isn’t an easy task, so they exercised a lot.

How should we connect a WOE with lifestyle? I wonder about this aspect.

#17

0_t4JOS_KkK0CaNnzy

here is a good little pic of what it is about carnivore for many just so people get what variations there are a little in this WOE.

Keto Carnivore is not truly carnivore, it is a hybrid and one that will not give the same results as a true ‘carnivore plan’, eliminating ALL plant matter from your life. A "ketovore’’ eats some plants but is heavy protein based all times.

Being elimination eating plan it is truly very personal what little one does want to keep ya know. Coffee is so personal and on that fence of do ya want to keep it, or let it go and alot of times it comes down to not doing well with coffee actually. So many who drop it are surprised how much better they thrive without it, but I sure can’t say from experience cause I never drank coffee and never had to give it up :slight_smile:

(Vic) #18

Yes it was easy, we have no hair on our body, we don’t overheat, we can outrun practically any animal, especially the hairy big ones.

Cooking is a form of proccesing food.
A good way to think about cooking is see it as predigesting it a bit, less work for our digestive systen, available calories is larger after cooking for the same amount of food.

I do, but its very specific to me how i do it.

#19

yea I have to say I do have a specific WOE to equal my lifestyle and it fits so well for me just like you Vic.

@Corals, Plus I make it fit the culture and what I have to manuever thru out in the world but to me that is anything any of us do with anything we desire. We work around what life is out there and we bob and weave and find us in the big madness. We carnivores who want to be just that, and hold this carnivore plan, easily keep our plan as a priority and fit it into every day life.

but we can’t equal long ago ever :slight_smile: We can’t equal tribes hunting and their environment. We now can’t equal anything from the past. Environments change, our world is different and we can just be the best carnivores we can in the world we got now I guess! All I can do.

How should we connect a WOE with lifestyle? Simple for me really. I do what I desire and I make it fit my life, no matter how much I have to scrimp my way around everything and just hope for the best in my eating at all time. Restaurants we know are icky compared to home cooking control. We know for most of us that eating processed more like sausages, or deli meats etc. have been ‘handled and changed’ more than a fresh slab of meat, raw or cooked :slight_smile: So it is just be carnivore, as well as you can do for what you like to eat, control the little nuances of eating out and all and do your best. That is all I do :slight_smile: I can’t really do more than that.

#20

The way I see it is that most places lean towards the dogmatic / puritanical.

Even though most people on the internet will tell you they’re perfect at sticking to the rules, most people only stick to something 90%. If the rules are very strict, then 90% adherence still yields great results. If all the caveats and loopholes are added into the rules, and you only stick 90% to those more relaxed rules, then you might not see the benefits.

Personally, I take carnivore as being a base with some options - so the basic food is animal; the basic drink is water.

Then you’ve got things like: eggs, cheese, cream, coffee, salt, fungi, pepper, spices, butter, ghee, alcohol etc.

For me, I figure that if you want, you can have some of the things on that list but each one might take you further away from full adherence. In theory, some are widely accepted as carnivore (eggs, dairy) whilst others are not.

Personally, I sacrificed dairy/spices/pepper/fungi etc for alcohol. I never ever ever have anything with my meat other than salt - no condiments, no mustard, no ketchup, no sauces, no spices - and I never eat anything that isn’t meat/fish for my meal. So I have 100% adherence for my meals (which I think is somewhat rare), and because I’m so dogmatic over the meals, I break the rules and drink a little alcohol each weekend, probably bringing me down to 90% adherence.

But the reason I say this is that if you’re on carnivore or thinking of going carnivore, don’t think that because you’re not doing beef + water it doesn’t mean you won’t see benefits, and I would say that 90% adherence is better than none at all.

The important thing is knowing the rules and understanding which ones you’re breaking. For instance, knowing that coffee is an appetite suppressant might lead you to eating breakfast before drinking a coffee, so you’ve fed your body instead of artificially quietening down the hunger signals.

As always, everyone’s mileage varies. I’d do as best you can with the dogmatic rules because the stricter you can be, the easier it is. But then I’d be selective over the ones you want to break to see how you can mitigate the effects - like the coffee example above, or even choosing to drink a spirit rather than lager if you like alcohol etc.