8 month weight loss Stall - HELP

#1

I started keto almost a year ago, 30 Female, overweight, no history of metabolic disease. Started at 220lbs, lost about 7 in the first week or two then over the course of the next few months went down 20lbs and thats where Ive stayed since. Its been 8 months and I havent lost or gained any weight and its getting extremely frustrating.

I work out frequently, I do intermittent fasting (skipping breakfast every day) and Ill do an extended 24h fast on occasion (once or twice a week). I track all of my food stay within 1800 calories/day (In creased it from 1600 since I am weight lifting).

I love keto and I plan to stick with it regardless, but its still difficult. I feel like I work very hard and do everything right but my weight wont budge. I recently bought a ketone meter to monitor that in case there are some problematic foods that might be triggering high blood glucose/low ketones to help guide me away from that.

Ive tested myself yesterday and my ketons are at 0.9mmol and my blood was 95. After dinner I was 0.9mmol and 118 glucose. Then this morning when I woke up I was still 0.9mmol and 106 glucose. Why is my blood sugar so high all the time? That has kind of been the same in the past when I tested my blood more often. My ketones seem like they are high enough for ketosis but on the low end.

Maybe there are foods that are spiking my blood sugar or is this a sign of insulin resistance? Im really not sure but it always seems to be high rarely going below 90 unless Im fasting for a good chunk of time.

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated!

(Janelle) #2

You say you have no history of metabolic disease, but it sure sounds like it to me. When your glucose is constantly high, it’s a good indicator that your insulin is also working overtime to get that glucose down. While that fight is happening, there is a little chance that you’re going to lose weight. I know for myself, I recently gave up sweeteners and the needle is moving again. I have also reduced cheese, which greatly pains me, but I recognize that I was probably eating it too much, even if in my tracker I was staying under 20 carbs.

#3

All my tests from the doctor have never suggested anything relating to diabetes or such but that doesnt mean I dont have the beginnings of it. Its definitely possible!

Also do you know why sugar replacements also spike blood sugar? I might try testing them sometime just to see if they do because I def still use them. I can cut down on dairy as well to see if that helps.

(Bunny) #4

8 month stall? If your thyroid is not functioning properly all that fasting, exercising, weight lifting and caloric restriction (ketogenic diet) will be absolutely futile if burning body fat is your goal?

I would get my thyroid tested independently by experts in field to find out what the real deal is?

Link to earlier post:

I’m nearly hysterical…actually I am hysterical

#5

That is a good suggestion! But Im afraid of talking to a doctor in case they demonize my choice to go keto and blame all my issues on that. But I can see if I can order a test anyway!

(Janelle) #6

Mine either, but I sure did develop a bigger belly (started coming on around age 45 - I’m 50 now), I have skin tags, my blood pressure is higher than it should be, and I put on weight without changing my diet.

My PCP likes saying on my blood results, “Good news! You’re not diabetic!” Amy Berger, on the other hand, says that if your insulin is always trying to keep up with your glucose, you are some form of diabetic. You may not require insulin, but you should be looking into things that you can do to solve the issue. It’s kind of frustrating because losing weight is one of the things that helps to solve the issue. Chicken and egg much?

(Janelle) #7

I didn’t really love the discussion with Dr. Jockers at Adapt Atlanta (an event put on by Dr. Westman) but he specifically said that very basic thyroid tests will sometimes hide actual problems. Here is the slide he presented with tests one should have done.

His clinic does all these tests for $300. Yes, it kinda sounded like a sales pitch.

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(Bunny) #8

Found a link to that:

How to Properly Test Thyroid Function with Labs

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Functional vs AutoImmune Thyroid:

Through personal experience, I have found that antibody (autoimmune) testing is only done upon persistent request. The causes and treatments for an autoimmune condition versus a functionally underactive thyroid are different. Therefore, having a clinician to properly test thyroid markers for these differences is extremely important if we want treatment to be the best.

My clients are exhausted with their conventional doctors and unproductive thyroid care, or lack thereof. Many of them come to our website and programs looking for answers. They wonder why nothing is changing, what triggered their thyroid problem to begin with, and what is the best course of action?

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Question about hashimoto's hypothyroidism and prolonged fasting
(Windmill Tilter) #9

I suspect that your ketones, glucose readings, and thyroid have nothing to do with it. I think your exercise is the culprit. Exercise is great for the body in a 100 different ways. Fat loss is not one of them.

If you want to gain muscle and improve cardiovascular fitness (VO2 max), exercise is absolutely the best thing you can do. If you want to lose fat, exercise is not particularly helpful, but it can be counterproductive by increasing hunger signals, and obscuring satiety signals.

You may be in the awkward position of having to choose between gaining muscle & VO2 max and losing fat. I am in that position too.

Exercise increases hunger signals differently for different people. For some people it barely increases hunger. For some people their bodies significantly overcompensate by dramatically ramping up hunger signals. I am one of those people unfortunately. If you are eating to satiety, and your satiety signals are broken due to recent exercise, following them is like following a compass next to an electromagnet. You will just go in circles for 7 months.

What that has meant for me is that in order to continue losing weight I only lift weights one day a week, and only for 15 minutes. That means that I’m building muscle suboptimally, but I am still building muscle. I always eat to satiety, and on weightlifting days and the following day that means 3500kcal-4000kcals per day. I don’t lose weight for those 2 days. I’m fine with that. The other 5 days of the week I manage to lose at least 2lbs of fat. I’ve lost ~30lbs in the past 8 weeks. When I was working out frequently, I was stalled for months. It’s a compromise.

You may be in a similar position.

Incidentally, if your goal is to improve cardiovascular fitness (VO2 max), then a tabata workout is right up your alley. If you are capable of doing a “tabata” workout for more than 10 minutes, you’re either an Olympic athlete, or doing it wrong. Long story short, pick your muscle/fitness goal and pick which single day of the week you will work on it for 15 minutes.

I think you will start seeing the fat loss very quickly once you prioritize it.

That’s my experience anyways.

(Windmill Tilter) #10

Having said all that, if there is any evidence whatsoever that you have a thyroid issue, or if you have a family history of thyroid issues, definitely go and see a doctor and get the test. If she keto-shames you, just let it roll of your back, tell her what a brilliant doctor she is recommending the DASH diet, snatch the script out of her hand before the ink is even dry, and get tested. Once you have test results, you’ll have the information you need to make a decision.

I’m guessing you have the very common problem of excessive hunger post-exercise rather than the very rare problem of a thyroid disorder. However if you are presenting rare symptoms, and you’ve got good insurance, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

#11

Hmm I dont usually feel excessively hungry I suppose and I usually stay within my 1800 calorie window. Ive been doing 2 days of cardio (30-50 minutes) and 2 days of muscle building.

#12

Just curious what all are you eating?

#13

I skip breakfast everyday (unless on the weekends when Ill have scrambled eggs with cream and bacon)

For lunches at work I usually make some sort of stir fry with meat and veggies or soups. Plenty of fat in them! I have greatly decreased the amount of dairy I eat but still have it on occasion.

For dinner Its more meat with veggies and fats (burgers with avocado, chicken with sugar free bbq) served with broccoli, green beans, or a side salad.

Sweets are generally later in the evening or along with a meal in the form of 1/6th of a Lily’s chocolate bar, fat bombs, or some keto dessert I made. (In the past its been brownies or cheesecake)

When I first started keto a year ago, the whole first summer I was training for a triathlon so while I had initial weight loss of about 20lbs it slowed a lot while I was training. I would work out 4 times a week with a very heavy work out day on the weekends. Im not sure if my body was shutting down weight loss with that much working out, or if it was a combination or losing SOME weight but also gaining muscle. I did a lot of running, swimming, and biking.

(less is more, more or less) #14

Aside from the inscrutably astute counsel you’re already receiving, this comment catches my eye. Even though doctors are experts, I respect a doctor’s expertise by “firing” them if they fail at keeping meaningfully current, especially on such a critical aspect to keeping healthy. I understand there are complications, such as living in an underserved community. I hope that’s not true for you. If it isn’t, I’d find a doctor that is open or supportive of low-carb eating.

(Cindy) #15

How many carbs are you actually taking in? Since you have the meter, it might be interesting for you to see what happens to you blood glucose if you go carnivore for a couple of days. Try dropping the veggies at lunch and dinner, AND skipping the late night dessert…even if it’s just for 2 or 3 days so you can see what’s happening.

If your blood glucose level drops, then you know you need to further restrict your carb intake. Not necessarily carnivore, but you could add a few each day to see just how much YOU can handle. n=1 :wink:

(Windmill Tilter) #16

I’ll be the first to admit that I could be wrong about all of the above, it’s just my 2 cents. I couldn’t lose weight and exercise. When I stopped exercising fat loss became as effortless. It works for lots of people. You may be different, but then again your stall coincided with the most exercise you’ve ever done (triathlon training).

Here is my reasoning as to why 1800kcal might not work, trusting your satiety signals is your best option, and that fixing your satiety signals is priority #1 if they’re not leading you towards your goal:

Hunger signals and satiety signals are hormonal. Keto helps normalize hormones, exercise can disrupt this. Eating a ketogenic diet to satiety is superior to SAD and CRaP (Calorie Restriction as Primary) in every conceivable way possible, but it is not exempt from the fundamental principles of hormonal regulation, energy balance, and fat loss. People gain weight on keto all the time. If you can’t trust your hunger signals you will be lost in Stall City without a compass. Exercise can and does distort hunger signals.

If you eat to satiety and your hunger signals lead you to eat 25kcal/day in excess of your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) on your lifting and cardio days, you will not lose weight on those days. Period. Those are 4 of the seven days of the week. Welcome to Stall City, population you.

All debate about CICO aside (and I have absolutely no interest in sparking such a debate), if you have not measured your RMR (resting metabolic rate), you have absolutely no idea what your TDEE is (total daily energy expenditure). The online calculators will tell you your RMR +/-25%. Your RMR may be 1600, or 1200, or 2000.

The good news is that if you haven’t had an RMR test, you have absolutely no idea what your RMR is. The bad news is that if you have had an RMR test done, you still have absolutely no idea what your daily RMR is. This is funny, but unfortunately it is also true. My friend primal.peanut bought the same $4,000 indirect calorimeter that DexaFit uses (Korr Metacheck) to track his RMR each day. I bought the slightly more sophisticated Korr CardioCoach CO2. His MetaCheck is newly calibrated, and certified to +/-3%. Here is his recent chart from a project that he and I are working on together. Note that his RMR (blue dots) ranges from 1800kcal/day to 2400kcal/day. It can move 400kcal in a single day. This is not his TDEE, this is his RMR! His TDEE routinely moves by more than double that amount.

Long story short, knowing that you eat 1800kcal/day simply won’t get you very far. You don’t know actually know your daily caloric needs. Even having an RMR test on a calibrated machine won’t fix that. If you can’t trust your hunger signals, you are lost in stall city without a compass. Exercise can and does distort hunger signals. There is a good chance that if you stop exercising, your hunger signals will guide you back towards slow and gradual weight loss.

I wish you the very best of luck, I know how frustrating a stall can be, especially when you are working so hard! I hope you find the culprit. It could be many things, but exercise-induced satiety signal disruption seems like the logical culprit to me based on what you’ve described.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #17

I don’t think they necessarily do, it’s an individual thing. But they can spike insulin and cause fat storage.

(Simon Saunders) #18

I’m the same, all I do is the same thing but keep fats at 88g per day, and weight falls off quickly, then I just increase fats again to maintain, keto is so awesome for weight maintenance at lower fat thresholds.

(Duncan) #19

I do cardio and lift 3 times a week. I also am at a fat loss stall for months. Even completely stopped drinking. I also have higher fasting glucose. Psysiologic insulin resistance, dawn phenonemon, adaptive glucose sparing, physiologic glucose spating.

https://blog.designsforhealth.com/node/835

It seems like the exersize is getting in the way of fat loss.

I reduced training to 2 times a week and I am slowly, slowly!! losing bodyfat agian.

This happend after a year of full bown Keto. Even more carnivore at the end. I do intermittent fasting longer fasts, dry fasts. I personally eat 1800 - 2100 calories. Probably too low at my 5’11 and 99 kilograms and training 3 times a week for 1.5 hours and daily walk at work.

(Mark) #20

As Dr. Ron Rosedale says, “Count your Protein”. High protein will stall any success. :slight_smile: