3.5 blood ketones in the morning, 1.1 ketones at night - normal?

[sharkme]

Hello,

I’ve started doing keto for a couple weeks now and I’m keeping carb intake around 10g (7-12g / day).
I’ve started measuring my ketones during morning (before breakfast) and evening (before eating) using a Precision Xtra blood ketone tester.

During the morning I’ve gotten the readings :
3.7 | 2.5 | 2.5 | 4.5

And during the evening I’ve gotten:
1.7 | 1.1 | 1.4 | TBD

Question: It seems that at least during the evening I’m not in ketosis. What is going on here, is this normal ? Can’t find much info on this online. Anyone else testing themself morning / evening - If so what results are you getting ?

I’ve also tested my friend who doesn’t do keto with the meter and they got 0.1, so the meter seems accurate. Testing myself twice also gives similar results.

Thanks!

[Prancing_Pony]

O.5 is considered “in ketosis” and I imagine lower readings at night is due to you eating during the day and fasting while you sleep.

Don’t stress too much about the numbers, higher numbers don’t necessarily mean more weight loss/ benefits.

[KetoSnaps]

People generally aren’t eating for a longish period of hours overnight, so most (and not just keto folks, either!) will have ketones in the morning. I would say it’s totally normal for your morning ketones to be higher than later in the day.

[David_Stilley]

I don’t know, I’ve seen plenty of the opposite. I don’t test but often there’s elevated BG early and higher ketones in the afternoon I have seen many report. Calling a dedicated tester, @amwassil

[KetoCancerMom]

Also, some people tend to “over-produce” early on in their Keto journey, and then it tapers off as they get farther in.

[Ilana_Rose]

I don’t test but often there’s elevated BG early and higher ketones in the afternoon I have seen many report.

This is my pattern. BG around 80 and ketones between 1 and 1.5 in the morning and BG sub 60 -70 with ketones 2-3 in the late afternoon.

@sharkme But it’s also very normal to have higher ketones in the morning. All your ketone measurements look excellent to me. Your doing just fine.

[amwassil]

I’ve slowly come around to the opinion that unless you need to have β hydroxybutyrate at specified concentrations due to a medical condition and/or treatments, measuring ketones is useful only to determine whether or not you’ve got them. If you do, you’re in ketosis. Chasing numbers is a fool’s gambit. It’s true that β hydroxybutyrate bathing your innards is a healthful thing and to some extent more is probably better than less. Even so ketones vary in concentration quickly and greatly, useful interpretation is difficult. If you don’t believe me, then measure one or more ketones hourly for a full day, from the time you arise to the moment you hit the sheets again.

I think a better option, with home-user devices just now becoming available, is RER measurement. That shows you in real time the percentages of fat vs carb burn. In other words, how efficiently fat adapted you really are.

[amwassil]

Respiratory Exchange Ratio & Fat Burn

Definitions The respiratory exchange ratio (RER) is the ratio between the amount of carbon dioxide (CO2) produced in metabolism and oxygen (O2) used to produce it. The ratio is determined by comparing exhaled gases to room air. Measuring this ratio can be used for estimating the respiratory quotient (RQ). RQ can be used as an indicator of which fuel, carbohydrate or fat, is being metabolized to supply the body with energy and the proportions of each being burned. RER is about 0.8 at rest with a…

Lumen - let the conversation begin

Still vaporware, but what do you think, potential or useless gimmick. Let the conversation begin: The science (a bit): Home page:

[Ilana_Rose]

measuring ketones is useful only to determine whether or not you’ve got them. If you do, you’re in ketosis.

While it’s true that you are technically “in ketosis” if you have any ketones this is not all that the ketogenic diet is striving to achieve. Most people are coming for weight loss and a few for healing. Neither is guaranteed by ultra low ketones.

As the OP points out, his non ketogenic friend had minimal ketones. I have ketones if I eat 85 grams of carbs including a Mars every single day. But I do no lose weight at low ketone levels; in fact I will gain weight.

Dr. Phinney, the grandfather of the ketogenic diet, puts the minimum for nutritional ketosis at 0.5. I think for people struggling with losing weight on a ketogenic diet it might be very helpful to check blood ketones and ensure that the diet is at least meeting this criterion.

[amwassil]

Yes - and I still think for most of us monitoring RER will be more useful.

[Don_Q]

Yes - and I still think for most of us monitoring RER will be more useful.

I own an indirect calorimeter that measures RMR, RER, and VO2 Max. I use it primarily for RMR because that seems like the most important overall metric for metabolic health. I never figured out a way to make RER a useful metric.

I can see how it would be useful to someone eating carbs, protein, and fat. If you’re not eating carbs however, I’m not sure what it would tell you. If you’re eating a ketogenic ratio of fat to protein, wouldn’t it just stay around .75 every single day? What could cause it to go higher?

[Don_Q]

While it’s true that you are technically “in ketosis” if you have any ketones this is not all that the ketogenic diet is striving to achieve. Most people are coming for weight loss and a few for healing. Neither is guaranteed by ultra low ketones.

Yup. Here is a beautiful GKI chart from @Karim_Wassef from this past spring (click to enlarge). There’s a ton of fascinating info here if you stack it up next to his diet log. There’s probably a master’s thesis in there somewhere…

[Ilana_Rose]

I miss @Karim_Wassef .