2 weeks of water fasting. First week was in Ketosis, day 8 slipped out? No idea why?

(Phil) #1

I was wondering if anyone could help me. I started a 14 day water fast recently and after a couple of days I went straight into mild ketosis. I was drinking sparkling and still water with just a very small amount of squeezed lemon juice and was on 2-4 ltrs of water a day. I also took electrolyte water here in Asia called “Aquarius.” The only other drink I had was peppermint tea (black) and once in the morning a coffee with a vanilla milk (4gms carbs and low to zero sugar etc) with a tiny amount of non-fat milk and everything seemed fine.

I was taking Vitamins like D, B, folic acid and mens multi-vits. I then recently I also introduced Testosterone supplements and other various omega caps etc.

Over the past 3 days my ketosis meter readings and strip readings have started to decline and today I read them, the reading was zero, I also used the urine stick and I am totally out of Ketosis. I am sat here wondering what the hell?

The only thing I can think of is I drank a bit more of the aquarius water but the ingredients say no sugar etc or things that can affect ketosis. As you can see I am at a complete loss!

I have not eaten for 8 days so regardless, I assumed I should be in deep deep ketosis. Am I missing something here?

Any help would be appreciated

Regards

Phil

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #2

it’s probably time to eat.

(Phil) #3

Hi thanks for your reply but I am in this fast for the long run. Two weeks it has to be :slight_smile:

Sitting at home sedentary during a semi-lockdown is not helping I guess.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #4

If you’re showing any sign of sickness caused by fasting (in this case, it’s just that your ketones are dropping), it’s time to eat. There’s no point in trying to push your body any harder.

(Phil) #5

No signs of sickness Ellenor. I feel great actually and energetic, i am just confused as to my keto readings. I am buying a blood sugar monitor today also.

Thanks for replying

(Mary) #6

It could be your body is using ketones very efficiently and not spilling any.

(Phil) #7

Hi Countdown, is that good or bad for weight loss?

(Mary) #8

It’s neither good nor bad - it’s just the way your body works.

As you probably know, you can expect to lose .5 lbs of fat for every day of fasting, so 7 lbs net over your 14 days. Don’t be discouraged by the regain once you begin eating again; it’s likely just the weight of the food you’ve eaten (provided you stay strictly keto).

Good luck to you, and to us - I’ll be starting my own 14 day fast tomorrow.

Cheers,
Mary

(Phil) #9

Thanks for your reply Mary,

This evening I went back into light ketosis again, I think its just the way my body works, so I wont stress too much. I have a sneaky suspicion it was the electrolyte water I was drinking. I also tested my blood glucose today and it was 5.3mmo/L

If I feel this well on day 14 I may go to 18 or 20.

All the best with your fast and keep us updated.

Phil

(Bunny) #10

My two cents:

2 weeks water fasting?

Your body cannot tolerate large amounts of ketones and will try to get rid of it eventually and is going to make glucose from its own body parts and then make insulin to clear the ketones and glucose?

Why would you want high ketones unless your trying to achieve ketoacidosis? It gets harder to breath when ketones are too high?

Another reason your not seeing ketones on any measurement device is because they are being used for fuel and that is a blind spot when you fast extensively like your doing or fully fat adapted.

#11

You can totally ignore me, but I think that this is nuts and I hope you don’t end up in the hospital. Just my 2-cents. I know that I will get a huge defensive blow-back at me.

(Phil) #12

7-14 day fasting has been done the world over - Day 9 and I feel great!

However, thank you for your concern.

(Edith) #13

It could also be increased cortisol due to stress. Cortisol causes our bodies to release glycogen. That would bring down your ketone numbers.

(Family, Honor, Freedom) #14

Wishing you success on your fast. My longest was 10 days. Currently on a new fast - first in quite awhile. Day 3 and may go for a really long time this run.

Reading your post, my first thought was, “how are you testing?” If you’re using the urine strips, it’s well known that they are only really effective in early ketosis. As Countdown said, your body becomes more efficient at pulling out just the right amount of ketones.

If it’s a blood test - you can still see a similar effect but to a lessor extent. If you’re burning ketones, you’ll always have some in your blood as they move from your food or fat to the muscles and organs that need them.

Also, I’d point out that a lot of people would not consider your regimen to be a “true fast”. Omega pills have calories as does the milk and lemon juice. Not much each, but it adds up. A true fast is 0 calories. Period.

That’s not to say you’re doing a bad thing necessarily - but it will affect your numbers relative to others’ experiences.

I have a caution for you also: I’ve read that certain supplements are a no-no without food. I don’t recall the details because I just stick to electrolytes only, myself. I didn’t see you list vitamin C - that’s good because I’m certain I read that’s a bad idea on a fast. But I’ve also read that multi-vitamins should not be taken on a fast.

Don’t take my word for it on that last bit - I’m just vaguely recalling stuff. But I suggest you research what supplements to take and not to take while fasting.

(Phil) #15

Thanks Dave,

I have to have a tiny bit of squeezed lemon in my water as if I drink water on its own I hate the taste of it so much, it would make me throw up if I had 3-4 ltrs a day.

(Bunny) #16

3 days of fasting and 0.0 ketones hmmm?

Could be the ketones are being used for fuel after being oxidized from fat faster than the ketone meter or urine strips can catch (not floating around in the blood stream very long or making it to the kidneys)?

What ever is going on, it sure is interesting?

References:

[1] ”…Ketones are an inverse indicator of insulin because insulin inhibits ketone production (i.e. ketogenesis) [1, 2]. In other words, if insulin is high, ketones are low; if insulin is low, the liver breaks down fat into small pieces called ketones (insulin in fact tells the liver to make and store fat) [1]. …” …More

[2] Glucose homeostasis: Blood glucose levels drive key systemic and intracellular pathways. The presence of glucocorticoids, such as cortisol, increase the availability of blood glucose to the brain. Cortisol acts on the liver, muscle, adipose tissue, and the pancreas. In the liver, high cortisol levels increase gluconeogenesis and decrease glycogen synthesis [7]. Gluconeogenesis is a metabolic pathway that results in the production of glucose from glucogenic amino acids, lactate, or glycerol 3- phosphate found in triglycerides. Gluconeogenesis reverses glycolysis, a cytoplasmic pathway used to convert glucose into pyruvate molecules. This pathway is used to release energy through substrate-level phosphorylation and oxidation reactions. Unlike glycolysis, gluconeogenesis becomes active when the body needs energy. Muscles have their own internal glycogen supply that allows them to respond to changes in ATP requirements rapidly. In the presence of cortisol, muscle cells decrease glucose uptake and consumption and increase protein degradation; this supplies gluconeogenesis with glucogenic amino acids.[8] In adipose tissues, cortisol increases lipolysis. Lipolysis is a catabolic process that results in the release of glycerol and free fatty acids. These free fatty acids can be used in B oxidation and as an energy source for other cells as they continue to produce glucose. Lastly, cortisol acts on the pancreas to decrease insulin and increase glucagon. Glucagon is a peptide hormone secreted by the pancreatic alpha cells to increase liver glycogenolysis, liver gluconeogenesis, liver ketogenesis, lipolysis, as well as decrease lipogenesis. Cortisol enhances the activity of glucagon, epinephrine, and other catecholamines. …” …More

#17

Hope you’re taking measurements or have had some body scans if you’re going to keep doing fasts that long. Watch your muscle mass. Loose fat, not muscle.

(Ellenor Bjornsdottir) #18

that sounds implausible. if they were being used, they would be visible in some concentration.

(Bunny) #19

Implausible? Then why is it, when a person is fully fat adapted (27 weeks) their ketones drop to 0.8 or 0.2 consistently?

They are being used for fuel after the liver has oxidized body fat (in the case of the original poster, not dietary) immediately and not floating around in the blood long enough to be detected and they never make it to the urine? That’s what you want to happen because ketones are very acidic and you really don’t want to see them in your blood in high volumes or concentrations?

Measurement devices are limited (blind spot) and you could be burning some serious ketones for fuel even at a 0.0 reading! Why Dr. Peter Attia was saying off the cuff when interviewing a guest “…no matter what I ate, I could not gain weight…?” (body fat?, muscle? or water weight?)

And if your cheating 0.0, that’s a different story?

If doing something like Dr. Boz ratios or GKI and your %100 fat adapted after 27 weeks it might take longer to achieve or you might not achieve them at all?

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