0.3% bodyfat in 2.5 months :(

[Jason_Fletcher]

15% was for men not women

[Jason_Fletcher]

I follow ketogains and normally if a person has goals as jimmy I will point them there.

[infromsea]

There’s only 2? Anyway it was at the start of a new diet and 10 weeks later for the exact reason behind this thread - to see if I’m on the right track and make adjustments if not

infromsea:

On that point, I was kind of ribbing you.

I wish I had easy access to something like that but I’m also too cheap…

Others have said it here, ketogains has some other thoughts on how to build muscle with keto, which, in my mind, is what we are trying to do, build and achieve a level of muscle that supports a low enough BF to allow for ab definition. That might not make sense (not sure if I understand it and I typed it) but, what I guess I’m saying is that we can get low in weight and low in muscle and we probably won’t see the abs. Getting the right level of muscle VS body fat is what’s probably going to give us that six pack pop.

Good luck to you. I think most goals are achievable, it becomes a question of underlying motivation and whether or not we can be consistent long enough to achieve results such as this (getting to a low enough BF and high enough muscle tone to support a six pack, has to be something like under 5% of the population?) .

[jimmyrose]

I follow ketogains and normally if a person has goals as jimmy I will point them there.

Found a lot of good reading in the ketogains wiki so thanks for that.

Others have said it here, ketogains has some other thoughts on how to build muscle with keto, which, in my mind, is what we are trying to do, build and achieve a level of muscle that supports a low enough BF to allow for ab definition.

I think I’m good on the muscle side as I’ve been lifting for years and have fairly decent strength and size. At least I hope so. Just trying to shed that last 3-4%bf is probably going to kill me. A big part of me is like… why the hell am I doing this. The other part is like… you’ve set the challenge, now finish it asshole

[jimmyrose]

Yeah those are good ideas. The LCD stuff - I pull the blue light out of everything after 5pm, but I think the next step is just cut screens altogether a couple of hours before bed.

I do sleep a lot better with the air con on in summer. My partner is concerned about power costs (pretty crazy in Australia), but maybe I’ll just start putting more in to the bill

[jimmyrose]

And thanks a ton for all this by the way.

On the nutrition around HIIT, what would you recommend?

[carolT]

A big part of me is like… why the hell am I doing this. The other part is like… you’ve set the challenge, now finish it asshole

We love a good challenge and n=1 here. Maybe you will develop some good sleep habits etc out of this experiment. I hope whatever lengths you decide to go to don’t cause you adverse effects when the competition is over.

[infromsea]

At least I hope so. Just trying to shed that last 3-4%bf is probably going to kill me. A big part of me is like… why the hell am I doing this. The other part is like… you’ve set the challenge, now finish it asshole

I understand the mentality. I do think it’s a tough goal and I was wondering how many can reach it with the one cheat day a week and alcohol intake, I’d guess it’s a very small group of people who can do that (eat the junk once a week, AND have the alcohol AND have a cut, lean figure, I know I can’t do it at 40 yrs old).

On the nutrition around HIIT, what would you recommend?

I don’t think HIIT requires much variation in nutrition and intake.

I have done HITT workouts in the middle of a five day fast without issue. Fat can and will power HIIT workouts (even fat from body stores five days into a fast). I’d stick with whatever nutrition plan/format you are using, maybe increasing your fat and protein intake a little on hard workout days but not much other variation. The Ketogains calculator set on “gain muscle” has been helpful to me for that (gauging how much more/less I should intake based on activity level).

From what I understand, keep calories too low to support the level of workouts/lifting and you’ll fail to put on muscle and, worse case, reduce BMR.

[solomon]

Any science suggesting that satiation produces >15% body fat? Have gotten my six pack eating to satiation, 55years old. LCHF / keto for 3+ years. I need to increase my exercises to improve my definition. Don’t know my body fat percentage though.

[jimmyrose]

We love a good challenge and n=1 here. Maybe you will develop some good sleep habits etc out of this experiment. I hope whatever lengths you decide to go to don’t cause you adverse effects when the competition is over.

Thanks Me too. Also hope I don’t see completing the challenge as an excuse to return to cake

I’d guess it’s a very small group of people

Yeah I’d say so. I know a fair few people that can, but have to remind myself that we not all cut the same[quote=“infromsea, post:28, topic:13920”]
I don’t think HIIT requires much variation in nutrition and intake.
[/quote]

I’ve been looking at TKD on Ketogains and I’m going to try the corn starch/glucose before a workout. They have a lovely flowchart that says “do you feel like you are going to die during workouts”. If yes, then try pre workout carbs. If no, don’t. A lot of the time I’m definitely in that first camp when trying to push out max squats or something. So, I’ll give it a crack and see if it helps.

[infromsea]

Check out the most recent ketogenic athlete podcast, really good stuff there.

If u are gassed at the start of a work out you might want to try sodium 30 min prior and a light warm up (jog 15-30 min at slow pace) to improve performance (as per Phinney/volek) or increase rest periods between workouts.

It occurs to me that you might be trying to out exercise a bad/ less than optimal diet and that is a Very tough thing to do (damn near impossible in my experience). If you have cheat day each week, that’s 4/30 days eating non-keto which means you are out of ketosis 4-8 days a month, depending on how long it takes you to get back in. If you are out " on the high side" say up to 10 days, that’s 1/3 of the month out of ketosis, not good considering the anti inflation and hunger control is best when in ketosis.

[Jason_Fletcher]

I’ve been looking at TKD on Ketogains and I’m going to try the corn starch/glucose before a workout. They have a lovely flowchart that says “do you feel like you are going to die during workouts”. If yes, then try pre workout carbs. If no, don’t. A lot of the time I’m definitely in that first camp when trying to push out max squats or something. So, I’ll give it a crack and see if it helps.

people jump to this to soon without looking to this

If u are gassed at the start of a work out you might want to try sodium 30 min prior and a light warm up (jog 15-30 min at slow pace) to improve performance (as per Phinney/volek) or increase rest periods between workouts.

It occurs to me that you might be trying to out exercise a bad/ less than optimal diet and that is a Very tough thing to do (damn near impossible in my experience). If you have cheat day each week, that’s 4/30 days eating non-keto which means you are out of ketosis 4-8 days a month, depending on how long it takes you to get back in. If you are out " on the high side" say up to 10 days, that’s 1/3 of the month out of ketosis, not good considering the anti inflation and hunger control is best when in ketosis.

I think this is most likely the problem.

[devhammer]

people jump to this to soon without looking to this

Have to agree.

With the usual n=1 caveat, I worked out three days running last week fully fasted, and it was no harder or easier than when I am eating. I certainly do not find it any more difficult to work out without carbs.

@jimmyrose One thing to keep in mind is that if your muscles need glucose, the liver can make it for them. The only reason you ever need to consume carbs is if you have turned off your body’s ability to burn fat/ketones by raising insulin. Other than that, you should be covered. There are plenty of examples of athletes, both endurance and resistance, who achieve their goals in the absence of carb loading.

Again, I don’t mind acknowledging that we are not all alike, so some people may have different needs. But were I in your shoes, I would dump the “cheat” days, cut way back on the drinking, get more sleep, and see how that affects your workouts.

[jimmyrose]

Check out the most recent ketogenic athlete podcast, really good stuff there.

That episode was freaking amazing. Thanks for the mention.

If you have cheat day each week

I think this is most likely the problem.

Worth noting only a cheat MEAL, not a full day. That meal is the only time I’m not super strict on keto

people jump to this to soon without looking to this

I made their “keto coffee” before my workout yesterday with a double shot coffee, 10g MCT and 10g glucose (less than they recommend) and every single lift went up… significantly. Oh and I didn’t feel like dying.

I’ll try MCT only next time and see how that goes.

I worked out three days running

Cardio is never usually a problem for me. It’s after a heavy lift that I’ll feel like my body is about to shut down.

RE: drinking, going to do dry July and see how that goes

Thanks again guys

[devhammer]

Cardio is never usually a problem for me.

I may have been unclear. My workouts are weightlifting (StrongLifts 5x5 program).

By “running” I meant 3 days in a row.

[jimmyrose]

By “running” I meant 3 days in a row.

Ah my bad. Either way yeah I still feel like death some days during lifts. Usually squats are the killer. Going to experiment with different stuff in my pre workout and see what does/doesn’t help

[devhammer]

Usually squats are the killer.

Yep.

I’ve been back to SL 5x5 for about a month after a foot injury, and I’ve brought my squat back up from 85lbs (where the app recommended after a 6 week hiatus) to 150. Not going to win any competitions yet, but I’m OK with going up 20 lbs a week on the squats.

I have yet to enjoy squats, but I definitely don’t “feel like death” doing them.

Someone may have already mentioned the possibility, but you might try backing off to fewer workouts a week. between 3-4x heavy lifting and 3x HIIT, you may not be giving your body enough recovery time.

[jimmyrose]

Good stuff on the squats. Injury recovery is such a pain in the butt. Nothing like losing all that hard earned strength. I had the joy of ACL survey a couple of years back.

Yeah you are likely correct. This is pretty new for me. I’ve worked up from 2-3 lifting and no HIIT to this, over about 2 months.

After listening to the keto athlete podcast, I’m dropping HIIT to 2. Might put some yoga in there just cause haha

[Peter]

Proper moulded earplugs from the audiologist were the best thing I got for better sleep. Random sounds happen at night which disturb you and they’re gone by the time you’re awake. Look into zero carb beer … Pure Blonde is a brand here. Cut out those sweeteners bleeekh. Good luck with your quest !

[devhammer]

Proper moulded earplugs from the audiologist were the best thing I got for better sleep.

I’ve done both customized (using a home kit) and simple foam earplugs. The former may be slightly more effective, but I find the latter a lot easier to sleep with since they have more give.

I’ve been known, when having an afternoon nap, to put a pair of earmuffs on over top of my earplugs, similar to what one might use at a shooting range for hearing protection. When you have two young boys in the house, sometimes you need to go to extremes for a little shut-eye.