0.3% bodyfat in 2.5 months :(

(James Rose) #1

Brand new here. Been listening to the podcast on a recommendation and loving it :slight_smile:

Iā€™ve been on keto for about 3 months. Right now Iā€™m the best Iā€™ve ever looked/felt, but my main goal is to get a 6-pack. Totally arbitrary goal, but itā€™s been on my bucket list for years and I thoughtā€¦ why the hell not.

Iā€™ve just had a my second dexa scan after 2.5 months, and Iā€™ve gone from 15.9% to 15.6%. Pretty sad given how much work has gone into this.

My routine looks like:

  • IF every day. I only eat between 12-8
  • 3-4 heavy gym days per week
  • 3x 20min HIIT per week
  • 1 cheat night per week, usually boozed

After gathering info from the podcast and other places, Iā€™m thinking my lack of results is one of these:

  • A drinking night whacks me around more than I thought. Will be so sad to give this up :frowning:
  • Maltitol. Hearing about this on the pod, there are a few things Iā€™m eating with maltitol. Itā€™s gotta go. Maybe ethyriol as well
  • Too much snacking on nuts/cream cheese/pork rind
  • Stress - lots going on in my business at the moment. Iā€™m pretty chill most of the time but maybe something is creeping in
  • Sleep - I NEVER get 8 hours. I wake up probably 5-6 times per night. Not sure what else to do to improve my sleep

Anyway, thatā€™s my word vomit. Pretty bummed at the moment and hoping I can turn this around without reverting to a chicken and beans diet haha

(Tim W) #2

How old are you?

How much protein are you getting daily?

Why are you getting dexa scans so often?

I get your frustration BUT, a chicken and beans dietā€¦ I canā€™t see how that would help. I went 15 days without eating and STILL didnā€™t have that elusive six packā€¦ For me, to get there, itā€™s not about restriction, itā€™s about lifting heavy things and ensuring PLENTY of nutrition, in the right combination.

You mention a list of factors and the they probably are ALL impacting your results.

What I have found is the drinking is my #1 impactor when it comes to staying lean and ā€œcutā€. In addition, by using IF and long term fasts, Iā€™ve found that, for me, the body takes several days to ā€œcatch upā€ (this is for me, YRMV).

Here is an example of what I mean by that. Eat Sunday and Monday, donā€™t eat again until 1500 Wed, yet have a large bowel movement on Wed morning (not suggesting this for you/others, just saying that it is similar to an experience Iā€™ve had several times).

Same thing with alcohol intake/impact. I have a few beers on Sunday, I feel bloated and can ā€œseeā€ the effects on my definition for 3-4 days, maybe less if I go ā€œsuper cleanā€ keto. Bottom line, if you are drinking weekly, you are probably only getting 2-3 days of ā€œcleanā€ days when the alcohol is out of the system and your body is done processing the cheat foods.

I asked how old you are, Iā€™m 42 and NEVER had the ab definition I have now, and Iā€™m not super cut, I most likely never will be, I have TRASH genetics (Dad was 450 pounds, his whole family is BIG, Mom is large and her her family is HUGE) and keeping a four pack is work for me. As we age, it gets harder to get super definition, not impossible by ANY means but it takes a LOT of work. Those dudes on the front of the mags only look like that for a few hours AND they have some help from uncle photoshopā€¦

I think stress is HUGE when it comes to getting/staying super lean. That and the lack of sleep (when Iā€™m over 2 blood ketones I only get 5 hours a night, no matter how much I work during the day and how tired I am, 5 hours later, wide awayā€¦ typing this at 4:10 AMā€¦). Question, how soon before bed do you stop eating? Iā€™ve found that for me, I HAVE to stop 5 hours prior or I wake up with sweats and other indicators of digestion ā€œin processā€.

3 sessions of hit a weekā€¦ seems a little high. Thatā€™s a lot of stress to put on yourself each week. Are you getting enough recovery time and LOTS of nutrition to support that much activity?

The good news is, youā€™ve LOTS of room for improvement and, with a few tweaks, may reach your goal.

The bad news, stressing over all of this doesnā€™t help. Iā€™d suggest 90 days of no booze (I know, the idea sucks BUT, 25-30 days in, youā€™ll feel so good you may consider never drinking again, Iā€™ve done itā€¦) and super clean keto, see what results you get. In addition, adjust your last meal times so you have 3-5 hours between last meal and bed, adjust as needed. When you go to bed, try to get the room as dark and cool as possible, simulate a cave, and turn off the screens 1-3 hours before bed, it makes a difference!

I hope it helps to know you are not the only one that has to ā€œworkā€ at this.

Good luck!

#3

Wondering how you are checking for ketosis and how fat adapted you are if you feel the need to snack between meals? The pork rinds and nuts can add protein and carbs, depending on the type of nut. Are you tracking everything you eat?

(Jason Fletcher) #4

Ketogains has a good protocol for cutting on Keto. You can read their facts page here. https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/wiki/index
If you want to hit your goal you will find that you will have to account for everything you eat and drink. Some people believe you can eat fat to satiation and end up with a 6 pack. The fact is 15% body fat for men and 21% to 25% body fat for women is where most people will find themselves the most healthy. Cutting lower then that your body will fight you. Satiation to a 6 pack is not something that can be done.

(Tom Seest) #5

Based on that fact, I have no plans of ever being ā€œmost healthyā€.

#6

YMMV. Iā€™d say optimal bf% depends on age, gender and how healthy you are in other regards.

(What The Fast?!) #7

Can you let me know where this stat comes from? Also, I assume thatā€™s for men, is there a number for women?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #8

Not commenting on the merits of your goal, but one thing to be aware of is that the majority of folks on the forum arenā€™t here to ā€œcutā€ or get to a BF% that low. Majority of folks are either insulin resistant and/or T2DM looking to reverse metabolic derangement.

So you might find that other groups are better suited to your goals. Youā€™re welcome to post here, as KF is oriented to all kinds, but you may not find as much support for your particular goals here as you would elsewhere.

KCKO!

(Jason Fletcher) #9

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(What The Fast?!) #10

I think there are actually a lot of people here who donā€™t have T2D or any other major heath issues, but looking to keto for weight loss. Maybe not looking for a super low BF%, but definitely with a main goal of weight loss to put them at the bottom end of ā€œnormal.ā€

(G. Andrew Duthie) #11

Perhaps. But those folks will benefit from exactly the same advice that is given to those with insulin resistance and/or T2DM. Drive insulin lower by keeping carbs low, keep protein reasonable, and eat fat to sateity, and weight loss is the usual result if one is above the ā€œnormalā€ range.

Note that I was addressing the goal of getting a ā€œ6-pack.ā€ We could do a survey, but Iā€™m pretty sure that it wouldnā€™t land in the top ten reasons people come to this forum. To be clear, the goal of my reply was not to make anyone feel unwelcome, but to point out that for those who are looking to ā€œcutā€ or drive to low BF%, there may be better resources available.

Big difference between looking for weight loss to get to low end of normal, and trying to get 6-pack abs.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #12

@devhammer
Are there ketogenic bodybuilder forums?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #13

Check out this thread:

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/the-importance-of-sleep/2874/17

Particularly the videos from Dr. Stasha Gominak. Iā€™ve been trying to up my Vitamin D intake (both by getting outside more often, and by supplementing), and taking B-complex, and I seem to be getting up at night less frequently.

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #14

Wut.

Anything less than 17% and women become infertile. They stop menstruating. Does that sound ā€œmost healthyā€ to you?

I mean, if you WANT TO do that to your body it is your choice, but it is far from ā€œhealthyā€ for anyoneā€¦

Or by ā€œmost healthyā€ did you mean ā€œmagazine absā€?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #15

I would assume so. I know thereā€™s the Ketogains FB group, but Iā€™m not a member, since Iā€™m not a bodybuilder.

http://letmebingthatforyou.com/?q=keto%20bodybuilding

:slight_smile:

(8 year Ketogenic Veteran) #16

Me either, but I think there are members here who may enjoy those type of forums.

#17

Whoa there. Not for women it isnā€™t. 15% for women is most definitely NOT unless you re a performance athlete and even then I would say low end.

(James Rose) #18

30

Close to 1.2 g/kg LBM. 80 grams [quote=ā€œinfromsea, post:2, topic:13920ā€]
Why are you getting dexa scans so often?
[/quote]

Thereā€™s only 2? Anyway it was at the start of a new diet and 10 weeks later for the exact reason behind this thread - to see if Iā€™m on the right track and make adjustments if not[quote=ā€œinfromsea, post:2, topic:13920ā€]
Iā€™m 42 and NEVER had the ab definition I have now, and Iā€™m not super cut, I most likely never will be, I have TRASH genetics (Dad was 450 pounds, his whole family is BIG, Mom is large and her her family is HUGE) and keeping a four pack is work for me. As we age, it gets harder to get super definition, not impossible by ANY means but it takes a LOT of work. Those dudes on the front of the mags only look like that for a few hours AND they have some help from uncle photoshopā€¦
[/quote]

Heh, I have those genetics too methinks, which is part of why I want to just see if this is even possible. Itā€™s much more of an experiment than ā€œi wanna look like the dudes in magazinesā€. Yeah I guess Iā€™m trying to work out how much ā€˜workā€™ it needs. Not sure I can take a lot more than Iā€™m doing now. [quote=ā€œinfromsea, post:2, topic:13920ā€]
Question, how soon before bed do you stop eating?
[/quote]

Thatā€™s brutal you wake up that much :frowning:

Typically dinner at 7ish, bed at between 10 & midnight.

To be honest I donā€™t know. Pre keto, for sure. But a lot of my recovery stuff (whey after workouts, some fruit before workouts and orange veg / good carbs structured around workouts) is off the cards now.

Thanks so much for all of this Biff. This is super helpful. Worth noting Iā€™m not stressed, just a bit shitty on the day of the scan that I didnā€™t get better results. Got a few changes coming for the sleep side of things. For 1, ordered an alarm clock so the phone will go in another room haha

Thanks again

(James Rose) #19

Thanks for responding :slight_smile:

On and off, but going to start up again next week. When I track I hit really close to 5%/20%/75% C/P/F

A couple of things I heard on the podcast were interesting. Like killing those cravings with something salty/fatty, a spoon of coconut oil etc. I think I need more water too.

Iā€™m pretty picky with only high fat nuts, and small quantities

Yeah, starting to realise this. Iā€™m tempted to go hard for say 12 weeks and see where itā€™s at

I think you just did.

Thanks. For some reason I canā€™t view that thread. Iā€™ve been on b complex for months, and D3 for a few. Lots of outside time too. I think next is phone in another room and being more careful with caffeine

To clarify this whole abs thingā€¦ this is definitely some weird kind of experiment Iā€™ve dug myself into in my head. It started as a friendly competition with someone ā€œby the next conference Iā€™ll be more ripped than youā€ and kind of morphed into this. Iā€™ve told loads of people about it on purpose, so that it drives me to get there, pretty much only to see if I can. I have no intention of holding it for a long time.

The choice of keto came down to knowing a few shredded fellows on keto.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #20

Yep. Particularly if youā€™re using it late into the evening. I havenā€™t dug into the science, but itā€™s commonly reported that LCD backlighting can interfere with circadian rhythms and melatonin production, so worth turning off all LCD screens well before bedtime (and I am the absolute WORST hypocrite on that).

EDIT: Other things to consider related to sleep:

  • Making your room as dark as possible during sleep. I got blackout curtains for the bedroom, and it makes a very big difference in how much light comes in from outside.
  • Drop the temp - keeping the temp lower during sleep can help promote better sleep
  • Consistent bedtime/wake time - again, Iā€™m a bit of a hypocrite here, but itā€™s something Iā€™ve read over and over again, and it relates to not wrecking your circadian rhythms through inconsistency.