“Yeah...I’m losing muscle doing Keto and fasting” 😊

(James Weigand) #21

Praise God brother! Keto is my life now! 30lbs down and still strong when lifting! All my labs went down in two months! Thankful for this! Keto lifestyle for us!

(Ron D. Garrett) #22

Ikr? Awesome!!! So happy for you!

(Elizabeth Peacock Lindsay) #23

woohhooo!!! Love this post…super proud of your continued accomplishments! Keep on pounding those pounds off!

(Ron D. Garrett) #24

Thank you!!! Since I’m replying. Here is my second
Podcast that just came out this morning. So excited that I’m sharing like crazy :joy:.

#25

Hang in there Charlie. A lot of us are trying to figure out this protein thing. I am trying a modified version of the MPSF treatment (modified protein sparing fast). The medical community refers this as only a treatment and not a diet. The medical version of this which is the true MPSF is only for people with 30+ BMI and in need of losing weight rapidly. I am not in that category I have a BMI of about 26 and am trying to get it down to about 24 for a marathon in November. I am trying about 1.8grams of protein per kilo of lean body mass spread out 3 times per day. I would rather only eat twice per day but am trying this so my glucose does not spike from too much protein in a meal. Do you perhaps know if autophagy of lean mass feels any different than autophagy of fat cells? I would love to dig deep down this rabbit hole real soon and write something up on it.
Keep calm and keto on my friend and get that muscle back…

(charlie3) #26

I’m sure autophagy is a continuous round the clock process but that in certain conditions , like fasting, it accelerates. If the process is required for health then certainly it continues in most circumstances.

The people inclined to promote protein suppliments like to point to research that finds muscle protein synthisis accelerates for a few hours after exercise if there is plenty of amino acids available–before returning to baseline." Baseline is never explained. I suspect we get the same results by being patient and letting the lower baseline rate play itself out. (For all we know may be long term progress is better for the muscles if things happen slower,)

Another one is supplimenting with creatine. The best I can figure is creatine might encourage muscle cells to store more energy so exercise can be more intense and stressful and that might promotes faster progress. Me and my joints and connective tissues are not in such a damn hurry. We’d rather make lesser steady gains over the longest time instead of faster gains in the shortest time, especially if that might reduce the risk of injury. I don’t have time for injuries.

#27

Excellent. Thanks for the tips. I like the concept. Do you think autophagy feels different if youre burning fat as opposed to lean tissue?

(Tony ) #28

Good on you mate, you look great, and its great that you are telling others who are bodybuilding of your work !! Im also doing bodybuilding. I have been on keto for 9 months and also been bodybuilding the same time ( previous time for 1 year 25 years ago ). I’ve lost 25kgs / 55 lbs and mainly do machines. From an almost no weight start to now maxing out 4 machines and high end on all the others. So ketos great !!

(Ron D. Garrett) #29

Thank you mate!

(Tony ) #30

Hey there, have you had your testosterone levels checked. Around a year ago my levels “crashed” from mid range to the bottom of the low range in around 3 months for no apparent reason. My doctor picked it up and suggested TRT. It was a huge boost, like being given back twenty years… I then started the gym, then bumped into keto, then lost heaps of weight and now have grown muscle all over the place with hard work.

(charlie3) #31

I’m aware of that treatment. Am I riight that once you start it has to be permanent?

I have plenty of confounders to be explored. I dieted down 25-30 pounds in the past year. Body fat between 11-12%. I wonder if that’s too low for the long run and for increasing muscle. I’m also going to double down on reducing carbs and increase protein substantially and see what happens. I also do quite a bit of low and moderate intensity walking and stationary cycling because I want the best possible blood pressure numbers. That could be taking a toll on lifting. The only suppliment I’m experimenting with right now besides a couple of vitamin/mineral suppliments is creatine. So far I can’t say creatine has any influence which is no huge surprise because there is no benefit to a third of the people who try it.

(Tony ) #32

Hey there, it depends, when your younger you can “maybe” come off treatment, but when your older probably not. Its because if your body has reduced its own testo output then its not likely to restart making it in your later years. Its a deep subject and don’t get confused about excessive testo dosage, ie bodybuilders and TRT. TRT is about taking your levels ( if they have dropped ) back to mid stream levels, similar to when you were much younger. Its like being reborn !!. Keto and TRT, to my mind, are a match " made in heaven" for older blokes. ( There is a huge US Vets study on the TRT , search read the results, and be prepared to be totally shocked on the ( very positive ) results )

(KetoQ) #33

Charlie –

As I understand it, if you start TRT your body quits making its own. So when you go off it, it will take a while for it to get back to a normal level. That’s why it makes sense to stay on TRT.

Lots of guys have reported that TRT is great for building muscle.

(Tony ) #34

Since TRT actually “makes you better” than you are most likely at present, you will feel like being more active and together with a Keto diet you will loose more weight. Part of this is because you will develop more muscle with TRT, which in turn burns more fat. That’s why I do extensive gym work outs, to get more muscle. On my last blood tests all results are the best they have been in 30 years, with very good ratios, my doctor said I wasn’t even eligible for statins, following the guidelines, even if I wanted them, which I Don’t !!

(charlie3) #35

From my own researach it’s apparent that more muscle mass is desirable for health span, a perfect blend of vanity and science. I’m very lean right now so don’t want to reduce body fat. I like exercise and do as much as I think is beneficial. I enjoy being so lean almost as much as having a bit more muscle. One of the things I consider is whether I’m too lean for muscle building (doubtful).

I was a dedicated hobby lifter 25 years ago. I’m not new to this process. I’m doing everything right in the gym considering my age and good science and not getting stronger or bigger. Do you know what criteria docs are supposed to use for perscribing? Is my situation sufficient?

(Tony ) #36

Your in the US?, I’m in Australia, but I believe that the criteria for prescription is similar in both, and that is some medical reason. There are plenty of YouTube videos on the matter, but the conditions are veeery wide, anything from overweight ( which you are not ) to depression or just lowish levels ( which I fell under ). The results are remarkable. I’m close to 70 but get judged as a early 50s, sometimes even younger. It suits me ! And with Keto my weight has rapidly dropped off and with the Testo the muscle has gone on. Your right in your anti-aging assessment, I look and feel great. I’m getting gym guys in their 30s trying to chat me up !!

(charlie3) #37

I turn 70 mid december and usually guessed to be in my 50’s but I’ve always looked younger than my age. (I used to hate revealing my age. I do it now because it seems to inspire others.) If I was betting on it I’d say my T levels are on the low side. I’d consider T suppliment so long as there is no health compromise. I’m putting in the gym time so it would not be wasted.

Another helpful possibility learned recently is a meta analysis that finds insulin is sensitive to carbs but NOT protein. If that’s true I can double down on carbs and increase protein substantially and preserve some degree of ketosis. I walked to the grocery store and picked up a couple pounds of beef so the experiment begins today. I’ve hesitated to dabble in carnivore because of the all-or-nothing perscription. May be I can get benefits from carnivore without completely giving up a few things I enjoy in my current diet.

I’m skeptical of the absolute (eg. 20 net) carb values regardless of physical activiity. I burn 800-1100 calories with walking, cardio, and lifting vs a 1400-1600 BMR. It makes no sense that I have to be as strict with carbs as someone who is sedentary. I wish there was keto carb guidlines reletive to calories burned. If there is no carb/activity flexibility I’d like to hear an explanation for that.

(Kimberly) #38

Money racket…let’s tell people to eat low fat, stay away from all fat, count calories, exercise more, eat less…yeah let’s do that so we the Drs., Pharmaceuticals can all stay in business and make tons of money b/c they don’t know any better :smiling_imp: I’m still in the angry phase I’m from the fat free generation I’ve been fat free for over 20 years when I went keto and started enjoying fat again AND lots weight I begin to get really pissed…I’m still there…I could’ve enjoyed food ALL THIS TIME! That’s a lot of time lost

(Bob M) #39

I think the carb limit is whatever you can handle. The more damaged your metabolism is from years of low fat and/or high carb eating, the closer you probably need to be to 20. If you’ve not had that much damage, or (theoretically) you’ve repaired that damage, then you can go above 20. And of course, exercise would help to burn those carbs/reduce blood sugar and insulin.

After 5 years low carb (including a lot of IF and longer term fasting), I can up my carbs somewhat. I did eat some ice cream over the holiday, though, and I ate too much, and I could tell my blood sugar went through the roof. Some repair, but nowhere near when I was 20.

(Jane) #40

Tell me about it. How do you think I feel after 40 years of it and always blaming myself for being fat?

Rat bastards.