Why is zero so different?

#20

Daisy-

I wish I could eat cheese! I love it.

But a few years ago, I was having such bad heartburn (reflux?) that my gastro was concerned because an endoscopy was showing ‘significant damage.’ I didn’t want to go on Rx (his idea), so I did an elimination diet to see if I could identify the source. I started with dairy–and that was it! Cheese is (was) the source of my heartburn. I guess our bodies change over time because I’d been eating cheese all my life with no ill effects. But for me 7 years without cheese=7 years of no heartburn. I still miss it. . . .

#21

Bugger. It might be worth investigating whether you can narrow to down to lactose or milk proteins as this could widen your options. Having been without for so long you could try a small amount of zero carb dairy and would get a good reaction either way. If it is lactose then you have a fair amount you can play with - surprisingly so. For me, it would be worth testing :wink:

#22

I would love to try–but how do I know the difference? I’ve ‘reacted’ to all hard cheeses (cheddar, provolone, etc.)

#23

You may know already, but commercially shredded cheeses have anti-caking agents that are usually a carbohydrate source of some kind, so if you tested with a cheese that was already shredded, then getting a block and shredding it yourself might make a difference. Unfortunately commercial shredding won’t affect casein or lactose, but if the reaction came from the anti-caking agent, then maybe there’s some hope.

The Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar was recently on sale at my local grocery store and comparing that to the regular brand was like comparing bacon to cardboard - the difference was beyond what I can taste when comparing Kerrygold butter to regular butter.

#24

Thank you, but, yes, I know about commercially shredded cheeses and never use them–ever.

The delightful Kerrygold pictured is what I have a problem with, along with other similar hard cheeses.

I’ve gotten use to no dairy (except for my Kerrygold butter).

(Genevieve Biggs) #25

Based on all the reading I’ve done, what ZC veterans have told me, and my little time personally eating ZC (10 weeks), it’s not about the grams of carbs or any special macro or number of calories. It’s about:

  1. Plants are inflammatory. Any plant consumption causes inflammation as well as other concerns that your body has to handle. The more plants, the more issues your body is trying to balance and/or combat.
  2. The blood only carries 5g of glucose at a time, so a dietary consumption below 5g ensures fat adaption. You are running on fat, so you have no need to worry about craving alternative fuel.
  3. Whatever your age, your cells are hungry. Dieting, calorie restriction, and fake food starve our cells for nutrition. Everything starts at the cells. The cells don’t care about “calories.” Our cells need energy and nutrients, which meat, beef especially, provides perfectly. Eating ZC without limiting yourself, even if it seems to be excessive, allows your body to heal and manage itself without trying to do that with your brain based on studies that are irrelevant to people not eating veggies. There are ZERO studies on people not eating vegetables. (Yes, we have those like on the Inuit, but those are not detailed on nutrient and lipid profiles, etc.) So trying to use existing science for formulating a perfect ZC approach can’t really be done. There is lots of helpful science out there, but nothing absolutely definitive.
    What we do have are several people who have been eating ZC for years. They all testify that if you simply eat fatty meat, even to the point of apparent excess, that your body will heal itself. Hormones regulate, insulin sensitivity is restored, hunger signals normalize, etc. This is because you are nourishing your body, rather than focusing on trying to eat a perfectly keto diet for ketone levels or lipid profiles, or whatever. You eat true medicine–meat–and let your body do the work.
  4. In combination, it is the absence of an inflammatory environment for your cells, and the abundance of a nourishing one. Yes, you can eat under 20g in a day and have a high fat macro to maintain ketosis if you eat spinach slathered in butter or olive oil. (If that works for someone–great! Doesn’t work for all.) But, for some if not many this only inhibits healing, rather than facilitating. Your body would prefer a fatty steak than fatty vegetables. Why consume something your body can hardly digest just for a fat delivery vehicle?

I don’t know how much you’ve read, but I’ve posted an index of ZC readings here:

I know this was a bit lengthy, but there is even more I could say, yet so much of that would be referencing articles linked in the post I shared. :slight_smile: (I’m a bit ZC excited. I am the real life version of this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8 )

#26

SondraRose-
I think that may be my problem. I just feel so much better with no plant foods–and zero dairy.
It’s amazing to me how much of a difference this makes.

#27

I agree, Gloria, that it could be multiple things at play when going to zero (no plants). So long as this seems to work well for me, I plan to continue. I’ve always been a carnivore at heart, and eating meat is totally satisfying for me.

#28

Genevieve-

This has been exactly my experience!  However, after about 4 months of strict zero, I had labs done for my hypothyroidism (Hashi's), and my endo was 'concerned' about the elevations (not major) of my LDL.  Later, my cardiologist (annual check up) was similarly 'concerned.'

So I started using EVOO and Avocado oil as 'additions' (to my fish meals or lean meats) instead of tallow or bacon grease, and I've honestly felt 'less well' doing this.  [I've had frequent water retention, which may be inflammation.] I think I may try eliminating them for a while to see if there's a significant difference.
#29

Gloria-
I have read that the ‘elderly’ (I’m 75) need more protein, but I always wonder whether that’s based on studies that show many seniors are deficient in protein because they tend to live on cereal and other processed products. In any case, I know that I do best at about 80g of protein, and that’s always my aim.

As to the ‘level’ of fat, I don’t think there’s anything to consider. Fat tends to be self-limiting for me–i.e.,
I think that I use a lot, but then it totally blunts my appetite, so I really don’t eat that much if you consider the entire day. If I go too low, I get hungry and crave fat, so I try to stay at my ‘tolerance’ level–if that makes any sense:-)

#30

Ashley-
I actually gave up dairy long before I went to zero carb–mainly because I seem to have some sensitivity to it (did an elimination diet), and I do better without it.

(Retta Stephenson) #31

Hi @Mare. Been reading your story with fascination. Congrats on such good progress, and maintenance.

You might have already tried this, but thought I’d mention it, in case. Years ago I went thru a time when I could eat NOTHING but Goat Whey Protein from Mt Capra. It literally saved my life, until my system calmed down (doctors did squat for me; I had to experiment myself). Apparently goat protein is sort of “pre-digested” and easy on our digestion. So wondered if you might tolerate goat cheese??? Just a thought!

I’m 66, and just learning about ZC. So am following you with interest. Thanks for sharing.

#32

Hi Retta–

 Thanks for your suggestion.  I think I may try goat cheese soon.  It would be nice to be able to have that, and I've seen it at the market.

Thanks again.

#33

Hi Retta-
I’m having second thoughts about trying goat cheese because I’ve been dairy free for so long (and doing fine), I hate to ‘rock the boat.’ What worries me is that the meat and fish diet I’ve been doing is so good for me that I suspect it somehow is perfect for my body, and I’d hate to change anything by adding even a small amount of goat cheese. Does this make any sense to you?

I just feel that I’m doing so well on meat/fish because it’s somehow optimum for my gut bacteria and overall hormonal balance.

For example, I was worried about too much animal fat (LOVE it), so I tried using more EVOO and avocado oil [supposedly good stuff], and I was retaining water regularly. I eliminated the oils and went back to all animal fat–and no water retention so far.

So someone ALL plant things are a problem. I know that goat cheese isn’t plants, but I’m doing so well with what I’m eating now that I really hesitate to try something new. That’s perhaps because the oil experiment was so recent. Down the road, I’ll probably want to give the goat cheese a try.

And, again, thanks for the suggestion.

(Retta Stephenson) #34

@Mare, makes total sense to me. Only you know how you feel and react to stuff, so it’s great you listen to that.

The reason I’m so adamant about only US being the one to really choose for ourselves: I fought being overweight and unhealthy ALL my life. Did all the things that the so-called experts told me to do. Endured YEARS of accusations about being non-compliant, or lazy, or fooling myself, or lying about what and how much I ate. Tried it all; eventually failed at it all.

Then in 2008, I said to heck with them all. I spent 4 solid months researching the low carb diet (the high fat part hadn’t yet become a thing). Bought and read half a dozen books; spent hours a day reading on the internet; listened to hundreds of hours of podcasts.

Bottomline: in spite a resistant and sabotaging husband, I gave up sugar and most starches. Taught myself how to cook all over again, the LCHF way. Have lost about 140 lbs, til hit a health wall that has stalled me. Am trying to get going again, hence investigating ZC.

All that jabbering to say: I totally support that YOU will know what it right for YOU about the goat cheese, or anything else. When, if, or never… you’ll know. :smiley:

#35

Good for you, Retta!

I totally agree with you. I am convinced that effective weight management (and health) involves learning what’s best for US, despite what anyone else might think.

If anyone else described my current way of eating to me, I’d think that person was crazy and disordered in eating habits, but this is what is working for me right now with my current physiology.

When I began losing weight (about a decade ago) eating very low carb, I was having some mysterious gastro problems (seemed like gall bladder but all tests were negative), and the only thing that helped was eating very low fat (doctor advised doing that, since he’d seen similar problems resolve over time). Eighteen months later, I was able to tolerate very moderate fat.

TODAY on zero, my body craves fat, and I’m eating a very high fat diet–and thriving. So I suspect our bodies can change over time, and our diets may change accordingly. There should be no absolutes, IMO, just what’s ‘working’ at any given time.

(What The Fast?!) #36

This is so valid! Calorie and carb count is such a big GUESSTIMATE, no matter what our little tracking apps say! I started ZC 8 days ago. Hoping for some results!

Ooh! I’ve only been doing meat and eggs, please tell me - what kind of cheese are 0?? (I’m leaving dairy out for multiple reasons, not only carbs but also because I don’t want any confounding factors and I think cheese just makes me want to eat ALL the cheese.) :slight_smile:

#37

OK so you will have to be a bit careful in the States because they are tricky bastards when it comes to labelling! By using serving size, they can hide carbs. If carbs are 0.5 or lower per serving then it can be listed as zero carbs (that might be <0.5). BUT the serving size can be a teaspoon! It is a lot easier to compare like for like here in Europe (Australia is the same) because everything is listed per 100g (so %) as standard and then sometimes per serving also. The carbs in the serving size are therefore scaled down correctly. You, though cannot reliably scale UP carbs in the US. Cream is a great example of this and can be listed as zero carb per serving where it is not zero carb at all. But anyway… I am off on my soap box rant again!

In general, the more aged a cheese is, the less the carb count will be. The best way is to check the label but if your labels are not reliable then you are in trouble. If the per 100g carb count is listed then you are OK. Any parmesan I pick up here (whole or grated) is always zero. Cheddar is reliable in a block usually. Some blues like Roquefort are usually zero. I have an aged goat’s cheese which is <0.5 but most are 2-3%. There is the odd brand of Camembert which is zero. What else… Emmenthal usually, Gouda, Maasdam.

The ones I can pretty well guarantee won’t be are cream cheese, mascarpone and other young, fresh cheeses.

I love cheese too and eat it every day pretty much. I can tolerate lactose but it does hit my sinuses and I feel a bit like I am coming down with a cold. I am prepared to take the hit to languish in clotted cream once in a while though!

(What The Fast?!) #38

Thank you!! @Daisy is it you that cycles ZC on and off?

#39

No. @Brenda is the one who dips into ZC regularly. I often have days where I do accidentally. We did talk about a sort of combined IF/ZC regime where you were ZC for a day or two a week. I am hopeless at organising myself into such a routine and have a load of stressy stuff dumped in my lap the last few months so not really geared up for it. I do though need to get organised and start playing around with some of these things to find the optimal WOE for me. I am not a big fan of the tracking required to get the best out of it so need to wait until I am in the right frame of mind! I am happy to just plod along with general whatever suits me day to day keto for now :slight_smile: I do love the more experimental side though and learning how your body reacts to different variables. Do you feel you are closer to finding your perfect keto WOE yet?