Why is zero so different?


#1

I am very carb sensitive and lost a lot of weight eating <20g carbs, but I also had to carefully monitor calories because I’m a ‘senior’ woman and also hypothyroid. I’ve maintained my loss for 8 years, but
I struggled because any indulgence would cause the scale to go up, and it was harder and harder to lose those 5 extra lbs.

Inspired by Amber O’Hearn, I tried a 30-day experiment of just meat, fish, fats. I became anxious because I found myself craving fats, and I knew I was eating far more in terms of calories than ever! But the scale quickly returned me to my goal weight (down 5 lbs), and I’ve been zero ever since (8 months). For the first time in over a decade, I don’t count calories, I eat to satiety, and effortlessly maintain my ideal weight.

I was eating so few carbs before that this just seems amazing to me. Any idea why this works so very well for me?


#2

Dr Jason Fung has a good YouTube presentation where he talks about the two compartment storage system and goes onto talk about the body being like a power station i.e. give it the fuel and it will burn it restrict the fuel and it will throttle back and conserve energy. Well worth watching.


(Gloria) #3

[quote=“Mare, post:1, topic:9675”]
I’m a ‘senior’ woman and also hypothyroid.
[/quote] Me, too.

I am not quite as far along as you, but I also have been trying zero carb since the beginning of the year. I got started because of Amber’s comment on the 2KD podcast that she was still really hungry on low carb. I haven’t lost any additional weight yet, but I have also started doing strength training since my weight stall, so I think that any loss in fat is being made up for in lean body mass.

As far as why this is working for you, I think that perhaps the additional calories are increasing your metabolic rate (the flip side of decreasing metabolism by “dieting”).

Also, see Megan Ramos 2KD podcast, where she says that keeping the body guessing as to when and how much food to regularly expect can help. She talks about this with respect to fasting, but it may also be applicable.


(Tom Seest) #4

This is an excellent point. Many people really worry about calories too much, and instead need to listen to their body. A zero carb approach puts the focus on something else.


(Sondra Rose) #5

Zero carb is really a misnomer. The key is zero plants.

Some people are sensitive to the phytates and salicylates in plants and by removing them, inflammation is reduced. For others, fiber can be problematic.


(Ashley Haddock) #6

This is really interesting. In my mind zero carb always means zero dairy (in addition to zero veggies) since most dairy has trace amounts of carbs.


#7

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have the same question (albeit from different circumstances).

Really, what difference should 20g of carbs per day make on weight loss? Shouldn’t the only thing that matters be that you are in ketosis? Twenty grams represents such a small amount of energy, and the body can simply produce that much less glucose from protein. Also, surely, those 80 kcals could be burned with exercise.

I believe that for me there is a range that is best, and if I exceed it, then I will lose less or will gain weight - and I can still be in ketosis. I suspect that varying my daily grams of net carbs by as little as 20 (at some point) will have a significant impact on weight, and from a calorie perspective that does not make sense. There must be other metabolic reasons why we have a carb “sweet spot”.


#8

It’s all about the hormonal effects of the foods (specifically insulin) and if someone is insulin resistant (IR), they will produce vastly exaggerated amounts of insulin to relatively small amounts of carbs.

Under 20 grams of carbs seems to be the “sweet spot” that applies to nearly everyone, including keto beginners and veterans, but as IR decreases, some may chose to add some carbs, while others may not.


#9

My guess is that carbs were sneaking into your diet when you were eating vegetables and fruits, and you just didn’t notice. The carb count you see in nutritional data information can be way off. A tomato can have a range of carbs. The nutritional data should instead report lower value, higher value, median and standard deviation, to give more accurate data. But, of course, this would get extremely complicated.


#10

I agree with that @BillJay, which is why I did not enjoy the Atkins diet in the early 2000s. The induction phase was great but after that I just seemed to eat a lot and be starving even when not gaining or losing weight. To this day the word “Atkins” brings back memories of being the hungriest I have ever been in my life. Adding 5g of daily net carbs until you start to gain weight, to find your sweet spot does sound good on paper and probably makes sense with respect to kcals - but there is definitely something else. Insulin resistance or other hormonal effects made me starve to stay at the same weight and eat modest (perhaps 100g) carbs.

Dropping carbs definitely helped me. It does still blow my mind that exercise does not seem to alter this. A calorie is not calorie!!!

I am about a week away from my ideal weight (as a teen). From there I want to stabilize my weight for a couple months by sticking with my 20g net carbs and 80g protein and the rest from fat. After that I intend to experiment with upping the carbs a little. I will do that slowly. I am hoping that I can be stable with 50g like Phinney so that I can have some berries or other dietary options, but if not then that is just life and I will live within my 20g limit.

@Mare, now that you have been stable for eight months, have you tried adding 5g net carbs per day (e.g. a salad) for a week or two to see if that affects you?


#11

No, I actually wasn’t eating fruits and vegetables. My carbs were occasional nuts or peanut butter or things like liver and oysters and scallops that are carby. But I kept track and was usually no more than 10g.

I just think that something hormonal happens when we go carnivore that makes a difference.


#12

No, I’m off carbs for good! I did the ‘Atkins ladder’ several times over the years [adding carbs in 5g increments], and my carb limit is just about 25g. That’s how sensitive to carbs I am, and it’s likely the reason my body seems to thrive on zero.


#13

The only reason 20g of carbs is a ‘standard’ is because it’s a level at which almost anyone can get into ketosis. That’s why many plans begin there.

How many carbs a person can tolerate is very individual, and most people don’t stay at 20g.


#14

10 g is very low, and I don’t believe whatever you were using as carb counting (data on the peanut butter jar or bag of nuts) as being accurate enough. So easy to underestimate.


#15

Please! I’m sorry I got into this with you. Stop questioning my credibility. Eight years ago, I lost close to 180 lbs after a lifetime of morbid obesity. I’ve maintained that loss for the past 8 years, so I know how to count carbs AND calories.

Please don’t respond.


#16

First of all, I congratulate you in improving your health. That is fantastic. And I sincerely hope you maintain your path to better health.

Second, I am surprised in your retort and ask that you treat me and others in this forum with respect. I have nothing against ZC, and I fact have shared my ZC experience in this forum with meticulous data collection, so that I can share knowledge and learning with others. Here’s one example proof:

The purpose of this forum is to have an informed discussion around topics regarding the keto way of eating. We share experiences, knowledge, scientific research, etc.

And of course, treating our fellow colleagues on this forum with respect, and engage in civil discourse, whether you agree or not agree with the hypotheses discussed, is a must.


(Gloria) #17

As some who is not good at tracking anything for tge long term, there is a lot of concern about number of carbs (or in other posts, grams of protein). I haven’t yet seen anyone assign a lower level of fat needed. I am sure that I wasn’t eating enough fat until I tried zero carb.

There seems to be some debate on whether “elderly” people require more protein. Biochemistry is not my strength, but is there more raw material for hormones with additional fat and protein from zero carb?


#18

Actually you would be surprised how much is zero. I have quite a good selection of cheeses I can go to that are zero. Thank goodness!


#19

Excuse me, but tone is often lost with internet conversations, and I ‘read’ a rather patronizing tone in your comments about carbs.

I wish you luck with your experiment.


#20

Daisy-

I wish I could eat cheese! I love it.

But a few years ago, I was having such bad heartburn (reflux?) that my gastro was concerned because an endoscopy was showing ‘significant damage.’ I didn’t want to go on Rx (his idea), so I did an elimination diet to see if I could identify the source. I started with dairy–and that was it! Cheese is (was) the source of my heartburn. I guess our bodies change over time because I’d been eating cheese all my life with no ill effects. But for me 7 years without cheese=7 years of no heartburn. I still miss it. . . .