Why is zero so different?


#11

No, I actually wasn’t eating fruits and vegetables. My carbs were occasional nuts or peanut butter or things like liver and oysters and scallops that are carby. But I kept track and was usually no more than 10g.

I just think that something hormonal happens when we go carnivore that makes a difference.


#12

No, I’m off carbs for good! I did the ‘Atkins ladder’ several times over the years [adding carbs in 5g increments], and my carb limit is just about 25g. That’s how sensitive to carbs I am, and it’s likely the reason my body seems to thrive on zero.


#13

The only reason 20g of carbs is a ‘standard’ is because it’s a level at which almost anyone can get into ketosis. That’s why many plans begin there.

How many carbs a person can tolerate is very individual, and most people don’t stay at 20g.


#14

10 g is very low, and I don’t believe whatever you were using as carb counting (data on the peanut butter jar or bag of nuts) as being accurate enough. So easy to underestimate.


#15

Please! I’m sorry I got into this with you. Stop questioning my credibility. Eight years ago, I lost close to 180 lbs after a lifetime of morbid obesity. I’ve maintained that loss for the past 8 years, so I know how to count carbs AND calories.

Please don’t respond.


#16

First of all, I congratulate you in improving your health. That is fantastic. And I sincerely hope you maintain your path to better health.

Second, I am surprised in your retort and ask that you treat me and others in this forum with respect. I have nothing against ZC, and I fact have shared my ZC experience in this forum with meticulous data collection, so that I can share knowledge and learning with others. Here’s one example proof:

The purpose of this forum is to have an informed discussion around topics regarding the keto way of eating. We share experiences, knowledge, scientific research, etc.

And of course, treating our fellow colleagues on this forum with respect, and engage in civil discourse, whether you agree or not agree with the hypotheses discussed, is a must.


(Gloria) #17

As some who is not good at tracking anything for tge long term, there is a lot of concern about number of carbs (or in other posts, grams of protein). I haven’t yet seen anyone assign a lower level of fat needed. I am sure that I wasn’t eating enough fat until I tried zero carb.

There seems to be some debate on whether “elderly” people require more protein. Biochemistry is not my strength, but is there more raw material for hormones with additional fat and protein from zero carb?


#18

Actually you would be surprised how much is zero. I have quite a good selection of cheeses I can go to that are zero. Thank goodness!


#19

Excuse me, but tone is often lost with internet conversations, and I ‘read’ a rather patronizing tone in your comments about carbs.

I wish you luck with your experiment.


#20

Daisy-

I wish I could eat cheese! I love it.

But a few years ago, I was having such bad heartburn (reflux?) that my gastro was concerned because an endoscopy was showing ‘significant damage.’ I didn’t want to go on Rx (his idea), so I did an elimination diet to see if I could identify the source. I started with dairy–and that was it! Cheese is (was) the source of my heartburn. I guess our bodies change over time because I’d been eating cheese all my life with no ill effects. But for me 7 years without cheese=7 years of no heartburn. I still miss it. . . .


#21

Bugger. It might be worth investigating whether you can narrow to down to lactose or milk proteins as this could widen your options. Having been without for so long you could try a small amount of zero carb dairy and would get a good reaction either way. If it is lactose then you have a fair amount you can play with - surprisingly so. For me, it would be worth testing :wink:


#22

I would love to try–but how do I know the difference? I’ve ‘reacted’ to all hard cheeses (cheddar, provolone, etc.)


#23

You may know already, but commercially shredded cheeses have anti-caking agents that are usually a carbohydrate source of some kind, so if you tested with a cheese that was already shredded, then getting a block and shredding it yourself might make a difference. Unfortunately commercial shredding won’t affect casein or lactose, but if the reaction came from the anti-caking agent, then maybe there’s some hope.

The Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar was recently on sale at my local grocery store and comparing that to the regular brand was like comparing bacon to cardboard - the difference was beyond what I can taste when comparing Kerrygold butter to regular butter.


#24

Thank you, but, yes, I know about commercially shredded cheeses and never use them–ever.

The delightful Kerrygold pictured is what I have a problem with, along with other similar hard cheeses.

I’ve gotten use to no dairy (except for my Kerrygold butter).


(Genevieve Biggs) #25

Based on all the reading I’ve done, what ZC veterans have told me, and my little time personally eating ZC (10 weeks), it’s not about the grams of carbs or any special macro or number of calories. It’s about:

  1. Plants are inflammatory. Any plant consumption causes inflammation as well as other concerns that your body has to handle. The more plants, the more issues your body is trying to balance and/or combat.
  2. The blood only carries 5g of glucose at a time, so a dietary consumption below 5g ensures fat adaption. You are running on fat, so you have no need to worry about craving alternative fuel.
  3. Whatever your age, your cells are hungry. Dieting, calorie restriction, and fake food starve our cells for nutrition. Everything starts at the cells. The cells don’t care about “calories.” Our cells need energy and nutrients, which meat, beef especially, provides perfectly. Eating ZC without limiting yourself, even if it seems to be excessive, allows your body to heal and manage itself without trying to do that with your brain based on studies that are irrelevant to people not eating veggies. There are ZERO studies on people not eating vegetables. (Yes, we have those like on the Inuit, but those are not detailed on nutrient and lipid profiles, etc.) So trying to use existing science for formulating a perfect ZC approach can’t really be done. There is lots of helpful science out there, but nothing absolutely definitive.
    What we do have are several people who have been eating ZC for years. They all testify that if you simply eat fatty meat, even to the point of apparent excess, that your body will heal itself. Hormones regulate, insulin sensitivity is restored, hunger signals normalize, etc. This is because you are nourishing your body, rather than focusing on trying to eat a perfectly keto diet for ketone levels or lipid profiles, or whatever. You eat true medicine–meat–and let your body do the work.
  4. In combination, it is the absence of an inflammatory environment for your cells, and the abundance of a nourishing one. Yes, you can eat under 20g in a day and have a high fat macro to maintain ketosis if you eat spinach slathered in butter or olive oil. (If that works for someone–great! Doesn’t work for all.) But, for some if not many this only inhibits healing, rather than facilitating. Your body would prefer a fatty steak than fatty vegetables. Why consume something your body can hardly digest just for a fat delivery vehicle?

I don’t know how much you’ve read, but I’ve posted an index of ZC readings here:

I know this was a bit lengthy, but there is even more I could say, yet so much of that would be referencing articles linked in the post I shared. :slight_smile: (I’m a bit ZC excited. I am the real life version of this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8 )


#26

SondraRose-
I think that may be my problem. I just feel so much better with no plant foods–and zero dairy.
It’s amazing to me how much of a difference this makes.


#27

I agree, Gloria, that it could be multiple things at play when going to zero (no plants). So long as this seems to work well for me, I plan to continue. I’ve always been a carnivore at heart, and eating meat is totally satisfying for me.


#28

Genevieve-

This has been exactly my experience!  However, after about 4 months of strict zero, I had labs done for my hypothyroidism (Hashi's), and my endo was 'concerned' about the elevations (not major) of my LDL.  Later, my cardiologist (annual check up) was similarly 'concerned.'

So I started using EVOO and Avocado oil as 'additions' (to my fish meals or lean meats) instead of tallow or bacon grease, and I've honestly felt 'less well' doing this.  [I've had frequent water retention, which may be inflammation.] I think I may try eliminating them for a while to see if there's a significant difference.

#29

Gloria-
I have read that the ‘elderly’ (I’m 75) need more protein, but I always wonder whether that’s based on studies that show many seniors are deficient in protein because they tend to live on cereal and other processed products. In any case, I know that I do best at about 80g of protein, and that’s always my aim.

As to the ‘level’ of fat, I don’t think there’s anything to consider. Fat tends to be self-limiting for me–i.e.,
I think that I use a lot, but then it totally blunts my appetite, so I really don’t eat that much if you consider the entire day. If I go too low, I get hungry and crave fat, so I try to stay at my ‘tolerance’ level–if that makes any sense:-)


#30

Ashley-
I actually gave up dairy long before I went to zero carb–mainly because I seem to have some sensitivity to it (did an elimination diet), and I do better without it.