Why do we sometimes get thrown out of ketosis?

(Aaron) #1

I’ve been keto for about 5 weeks, and my numbers have really plummeted this past week. I am probably eating a little less, but not differently. I am weight training and I must say, my strength and my energy is lacking this last few days and I have been stressed. Not much as happened to the scales in the last 4 weeks. I guess what I’m asking is, do you think we need worry about the numbers so long as with generally feeling good, which I do accept when I’m exercising or when I’m stressed by life? Also, if anyone has any insights into weight training on keto that would be great to hear.

Thank you.

(bulkbiker) #2

calling @Dread1840

(Ken) #3

You’re just becoming adapted, so your body is using the ketones being produced. The real issue is Lipolysis, not ketosis. Once adapted, ketone levels are fairly irrelevant as long as you continue to follow a fat based pattern. Ketosis is only one of four energy pathways of Lipolysis.

(Omar) #4
(Pete A) #5

Hi Aaron,

I don’t know what “numbers have plummeted” but we go in and out of ketosis all the time. I wouldnt be concerned unless you’re consuming too many carbs. It all works out.

I also don’t know your weight training experience, I’ve been lifting, with good results, since February. I do think my perspective has changed as far as my capabilities with Keto and have responded. I do a 'beginner strength" workout, 15 minutes of dumbells, every other day. And mix it up with other resistance, cardio and yoga.

It’s for the long term and is working.

Glad you’re feeling good. If you have fat to burn and it’s not happening, I’d consider what you’re eating and getting comfortable with your macros.

Good luck!

(Aaron) #6

Thank you people! I’m not in it for weight loss and I’m feeling good, so I Guess I don’t need to worry about the ketone numbers. Many thanks!

(Ken) #7

That guy, whoever he is, shows an amazing level of ignorance about Lipolysis.

Not producing measurable or only low levels of ketones doesn’t automatically mean you’re no longer Lipolytic.

(Ken) #9

It’s both. Here’s what happens. When you eat any protein or carbs, you have an insulin response. When that happens, Glucagon production halts and therefore Lipolysis. This includes ketone production. Protein intake only causes about 10% of an insulin response as carbs do. Fat causes little or no insulin response. Once the insulin response is over, and dietary carbs are cleared from your system, Lipolysis resumes.

Duration of suspension of Lipolysis is dependent on amount off carbs consumed. Excess carbs are first converted.to Glycogen and shuttled to the muscles. This does not affect Lipolysis as muscular glycogen becomes locked in until burned, so is not available as an energy source to the digestive system. After that, excess carbs are converted to glycogen and stored in the liver. This glycogen must be used by the digestive system before Lipolysis can resume. If you eat enough carbs that the liver is full of glycogen, then the body starts storing body fat. That is Lipogenesis.

In reality, you can avoid fat gain as long as your liver never fills up. This is called Maintenance. It is also why people are able to have carb meals/days, as it takes quite a few carbs to fill up your liver. Usually several days, unless you’re doing it intentionally, like following a CKD.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

@John_Drewett Do yourself a favour and start a new topic for this.

(John Drewett) #12

Hey there Micheal , appreciate the tip , do you recommend that I copy and paste both of my post to a new thread along with the reply , would that be ok to do ?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #13

@John_Drewett I don’t know if there is a way to ‘transfer’ posts from one topic to a new topic. There probably is and you could send a message to one of the admins, I’d suggest either @PaulL or @OldDoug, to ask howto. Otherwise, I’d message @240lbfatloss and ask him to repost his original reply in your new topic.

(Doug) #14

John, good questions and a good subject. I agree with Michael @amwassil that it deserves its own thread. I’d say go ahead and make a new topic. Replies as of now are few and can be moved or copied and pasted.

Approximately - we have about 100 grams of glycogen in the liver and 400 grams in muscles when the storage is full. Bigger people will have more. Glycogen is a carbohydrate and has ~4 calories per gram, so that’s around 2000 calories. Those with a lot of muscle mass could have a considerably higher figure.

Things get ‘fuzzy’ pretty fast, I think. Even when eating no carbs, the liver makes some glucose, and I’m wondering if some does not get stored as glycogen. And on the “empty tank” part, I think it really takes a while to get there.

We don’t just use glycogen and then completely shut that off and switch over to burning fat. During prolonged exercise, as glycogen stores get depleted, the body starts burning fat, and that gradually increases as glycogen gets less and less. I don’t know if we get to zero glycogen or how close to it, if not.

Even as those energy sources get mixed somewhat toward the end of glycogen consumption, it’s still common to feel a severe energy decline as the body substantially moves into burning fat. This is the “hitting the wall” phenomenon for marathoners at about mile 20 or 30+ kilometers. If one is well fat-adapted, I’d think this would be lessened, but it’s still an individual thing, and for the given individual, long training sessions while burning only fat usually help - the body gets better at burning fat.

I’ve never felt any changes in my brain or head when going from ketosis back to substantial carbs, but I think some people do. For me more just a general sluggishness and “loaded-down” feeling overall, like I’m struggling once again with high insulin.

EDIT: :smile: I see the new thread is already in place.