Short run, Carnivore might edge out plain keto even if just because compliance is more obvious. Just as with keto and other whole food diets - there is a honeymoon period where lots of things get better - some just due to getting away from SAD. A month or two of Carnivore before keto might be a great idea.
Long run, keto is much more of a “known quantity” but long term effects of Carnivore (especially if done on factory farmed meats) are simply not known - and no one knows whether it is dangerous for a particular individual or not.
There is lots of survivorship bias out there and - just as with that other elimination diet (vegans) - very vocal because things are great for them.
But, the people it didn’t work for (constant constipation, family pressure, too restrictive at restaurants, general desire for some fruits and vegetables, iron overload, general bad feelings etc.) don’t come back and tell you about it.
Beef, if it’s too strong try calf liver as it’s milder. Chicken if neither appeals.
FYI: A lot of long term carnivores don’t eat organs and are in great health.
I love raw, frozen liver that I get from US Wellness meats. I slice it, wrap individually, then will eat a frozen slice like a candy bar. Yeah, weird but I like it. I always cook grocery store liver, though.
Taste. I ate chicken livers wrapped in bacon, and they had a very “liver” taste to them. Meanwhile, lightly seared beef liver does not have the same taste, to me.
So got some calf liver…and ate some. Thought it was very good, seasoned with Him. salt and mustard. Recorded it in my Cronometer and WHAM. lol It had 4 g of carbs?! Will still start eating this, but was surprised to learn that Calf and Beef liver are not Zero Carnivore.
Oh well. So with all this eating protein, can the body handle 40g of protein at a time??
Carnivore is not considered zero carb because there are some animal parts that do have carbs. Definitely liver, but I don’t remember what else. For some reason mussels are coming to mind for having carbs, but I’m too lazy to look them up at
the moment.
Beef liver is more nutritious than pork or chicken liver, but they are all pretty darn nutritious. I’m trying to get beef liver into me, but I’m really not a fan. I stomach it about once a month.
I do like liverwurst. That I cut into single serving slices and freeze individually. Then I take out a slice, defrost it, and spread it on pork rinds. I find that a tasty way to get my liver. I do this almost every day.
…Neither, when you can eat any kind of food and not gain weight and not be a person who eats one little carb and blow up like a balloon with glucose skyrocketing then your truly healthier?
My personal opinion, the carnivore diet is the ‘healthier’ way for many reasons. I believe the carnivore science and there is a ton of great carnivore reading in the carnivore category here on the forum.
I am biased LOL I am carnivore. I have no troubles saying this way of eating is best I follow it, I love it, I like the science behind it and I think for me personally it is the healthiest way to proceed.
But Keto is an absolute wonderful way to proceed if one wants some other eating options. But if certain plant materials make one sickly etc. then you would eliminate that from your menu and eat what does set well for you. More elimination of the horrible food choices out there in the world is always a great thing you are doing for health!
Most carnivores came from a Keto plan. Walking down the low carb journey more and hit into carnivore.
Diary is a personal thing also in that many can tolerate and many can not.
Come on over to carnivore section if you can and read up some good info. and see where you will fall and what actions you will take with your food choices.
Anyway you proceed heading into ketogenic is a good thing
Thing is the most true, healthiest, wonderful menu is the one that suits you to a T and works long term for you, you feel wonderful, you are happy in your food choices that all benefit you and not against you and it fits your lifestyle. That is a key here. Find what works best for your life. Your life is what this is all about
No, the zero-carb/carnivore diet is for people who have trouble with plant-based foods and need to cut them out altogether. A well-formulated ketogenic diet permits plant foods up to the limit of your carbohydrate tolerance, whatever that may be. In both cases, fat loss is a secondary effect, actually, although losing excess fat is one of the reasons many people adopt such diets. Please notice that I specify fat loss here, because a well-formulated diet of either type will prevent the loss of muscle and of bone density. Losing those types of weight would not be healthy.
In any case, fat loss is not a linear process, and how quickly one will shed excess stored fat depends on a variety of factors, not just on lowering insulin by restricting or eliminating carbohydrate from one’s food intake. For instance, it seems to be important to the body for us to eat enough, because restricting calories puts the body into “famine” mode, in which it hangs on to its reserves and cuts metabolic expenditures. This is why we recommend eating to satiety, so as to ensure that the body is receiving enough calories.
Furthermore, fat loss is usually pretty quick when one has much excess fat to lose, but the rate of loss slows down noticeably as the body approaches a healthy composition. Regardless of whether the person eats keto or ZC/carnivore, fat loss will be faster if we have 200 kg to lose, than if we are trying to lose 20 kg, and especially if we are trying to lose only 2 kg. Fortunately, most people find the other health benefits of such a way of eating to be just as satisfying as fat loss per se.
If you eat carnivore, from the meat that you eat. If you eat keto, some of those micronutrients can come from your vegetables as well. In any case, the body’s needs are quite different once the insulin level drops and is no longer blocking certain essential bodily processes.
For instance the need for vitamin C is much, much lower on a ketogenic or carnivore diet, because the body’s built-in defences against oxidative stress are reactivated once insulin drops. This is old knowledge; even back before the Royal Navy began stocking citrus fruits to help preserve its sailors’ health. the anti-scorbutic effects of fresh meat were well-known.
Forgot to add: As for the sustainability of these ways of eating, a couple of points are relevant:
There is no known essential carbohydrate; in other words, our minimum requirement of dietary carbohydrate is 0 (zero) grams a day.
Archaeologists can tell, merely from examining the condition of the skeletal remains, whether a society survived by hunting and gathering or by growing crops. The advent of agriculture in a society produces a marked decline in health, which is directly reflected in the condition of the people’s teeth and bones.
Although studies of the ketogenic diet longer than two years have yet to be performed, I seriously doubt that there could be any long-term detrimental effects for the generality of the population. The various reports produced by Crédit Suisse and Swiss Re on the need to drastically cut sugar and grain consumption to improve the public health (remember that these companies do a lot of life insurance and therefore declining life-expectancy is very worrisome to them), contain some information on the long-term effects of dietary interventions in light of the available data.
Mussels, shrimp, etc. have carbs in them. Not many, though. I personally don’t get concerned about the carbs in meat. Liver for instance: you have to eat a ton of liver to get a substantial hit of carbs.
Actually it is considered zero carb. In fact before it was dubbed carnivore mostly as its’ new found fun name…it was called zero carb by meat eaters.
What they say is this:
Any carb from meat/fat means nothing. So any carb in any liver, dairy or whatever comes from the animal kingdom is not counted ever. It came from animal kingdom therefore it is mute. A carb in meat will never equal a carb from plants. Therefore, mute again. That carb from meat/fat/animal kingdom is wrapped in great benefits from that food.
Any carb from any other source…plant material obviously here matters.
It is a carb ‘wrapped’ by bad food. Plants contain toxins and other troubles for people and if that carb is coming from plants, then it is not a carb wanted in a zero carbers body. That carb counts. It means something as in don’t eat that carb from that source of food that is giving you also bad effects from it.
So yea…many do think that zero carb is not zero carb cause some animal kingdom food includes a ‘good’ carb…but if you eat meat/seafood/fat/animal kingdom only and you ingest not 1 carb from any other sources…you are zero carb. You are carnivore.
NOW THAT IS THE info out there on a ton of the FB pages, Twitter and all those other social sights I never visit anymore…but that is a standard way of chat about zero carb. That info has been out there for many many, like 20 plus years or more. Zero carbers absolutely know they are eating zero carbs since it is animal kingdom only. That is long time info out there, but probably muddied up thru the new more saturated info from people heading into zero carb/carnivore eating.
The term “carnivore” can also be taken to mean meat only, which isn’t an entirely exact description of the diet, any more than “zero-carb” is.
There is no really good, simple term for this particular way of eating, which is why I generally write “ZC/carnivore” as my vague attempt to try to cover all (or at least some) of the bases. But at some point it’s probably better to pick one term, however inexact, and stick with it rather than to keep chasing the elusive goal of perfect precision.
Agreed Paul
more people coming to this way of life…which is a good thing…will muddy up the original concept and name calling of it LOL hey ain’t that always the way
I think some people are actually carnivore, meaning they eat (or drink) no vegetable matter at all. Some even eat no dairy. Just meat.
Of course if you stray from eating just meat (and dairy), then you’re not really “carnivore”.
I personally did not mind “zero carb”. I got the concept. I don’t mind “carnivore” either, though. Maybe everyone needs to add a percentage? That way, I’m usually 95% carnivore, though this week I’m less (having salsa with lunch/breakfast/brunch/blunch, whereas I normally eat only meant/eggs/dairy for this meal). For me, it varies from near 100% to about 90% or so. Depends on the week and even the day. Other people could be 100%, 99%, etc.
Carnivore is an elimination diet that is also keto. So it’s a false dichotomy. They are both keto. If you have a problem with all plants Carnivore is the keto for you. If you have a problem with some plants, go carnivore then slowly add kinds of plants till you find out what causes you problems and don’t eat that but eat everything else keto.
Or if you don’t care what it is and like carnivore, stay carnivore. You do you.
I’ve never had a problem with plants. I’m now 95% Carnivore and eyeballing higher %. Proof you want? I just painted the word Carnivore on an old sweatshirt with a wolf on it. Next reply.
Davy. You are being drawn into the mouth of the beast. Public proclamation of carnivory (or keto, or vegan) fuels the tribalism of eating. When people form up around banners their emotions start to rule over logical thought and curiosity. It’s a short slip on the icy sidewalk of humanity from physiology to psychology. Especially in the early conversion stages when you feel great with the dietary change. Next thing you know you will be at a Climate Change rally, supporting or sniping at a young Norwegian lass but demanding to know what she eats, suddenly surrounded by a pack of people (of all shapes and sizes but with the same stern visages) wearing virtue signalling vegan t-shirts. It’s a descent into football hooliganism.
