What I've learned 6 weeks in

#1

I hope this is helpful to others…
I am a 53 year old, menopausal woman, 5 foot 11 and started keto at 200 lbs. I wanted to lose 25 lbs.
I have spent most of my life struggling with weight, on calorie controlled diets losing a few pounds and then putting it all back on again. After gaining even more weight as I got older and particularly after a surgery, I started approaching dieting in the way I approach other aspects of my life…science and research. This is when I drastically cut down on simple carbs (not keto) as part of a calorie controlled diet and lost 2 1/2 stone. I changed from cereal, bread, rice and potato based diet to largely proteins and vegetables and cut out most sugars. A couple of years later as menopause hit and carbs crept into my diet a bit, I realised I had put a stone back on and also found my previous approach no longer worked. I just could not lose any weight. Low carb had worked before so I embarked on keto to step things up.
For 6 weeks I have been 20 to 25g carb a day and eating to a feeling of fullness. I have got the majority of my calories from fat and followed the plan to the letter. Here’s what I learned…

  1. I felt nauseated alot. The fatty diet does not sit well with me and I swing between constipation and lose stools with cramps.
  2. I never had keto flu. I read about this and braced myself for it but never happened. I felt fine. No difference to energy levels, good or bad.
  3. Eating high fat filled me up. I wasnt hungry at all which was a huge relief as I am used to feeling hungry a lot!
  4. I felt more in touch with when I was hungry. Without carbohydrate fueled highs and lows I felt less cravings and was able to recognise more when and when I wasnt hungry
  5. I realised I was quite afraid of fat. It has been drummed into me that fat is bad and will turn me into a whale. I was terrified I would gain weight by eating high fat until I was full. I didn’t
  6. People are judgemental know it alls! Ok some people! Many people believe that because something works for them, and they have lost weight then if only everyone did the same and listened to them, then they would too. Everyone is different. A menopausal woman who needs to lose a couple of stone is not going to have a remotely similar journey to a young man with 100lbs to lose. Lots of people have formed opinions based on their experience which have no basis in science…correlation does not equal causation.
  7. I miss fruit and veg. I made the most of veg in my carb allowance and I didn’t crave sweets or bread, but hated limiting all the colours on my plate. It feels wrong and I could not do this long term (see point 1!)
  8. I lost nothing. That’s right. Not one single pound. Wait for all the comments on what I must have done wrong…see point 6!

So what now? I am going to keep going but with calories controlled. I will aim for 1200 and see what that feels like. I estimate I have been eating around 1600 a day. I do believe that even with keto, a deficit in calories is needed and probably easily and unconsciously achieved for most people due to the appetite suppressant effect of a high fat low carb diet. But not for me. If people are interested I will update in a month.

#2

Yep, we are individuals and our ideal woe may be very different from each other’s, sooooooooooo few people understand this…

If fat troubles you a bit, maybe you can try to eat less of it and more protein? Your calorie intake is small enough to get away without much fat - but I don’t know what is much for you.
Fats don’t feel the same, definitely not for me. Much added fat wouldn’t be so good to me while the fat in my protein sources are okay. I avoid added fat, mostly because it’s not even satiating to me but it can make a food too fatty too, even for me and I LOVE fat. But it must be the right amount for the dish.

You should have some level of fat adaptation soon if it didn’t happen already. It may help with satiation and fat-loss. Or not. I needed it to have a chance but it wasn’t enough alone. A small eating window helps me but it’s very individual and my carb intake has the biggest impact, by far. Maybe (now or later) you can tweak something… Even less carbs, eliminating something…

Fruits and vegetables. I pretty much avoid them now (though not completely… a very tiny amount stayed) but I had your problems. It helped when I simply stopped trying to eat vegetable dishes (they couldn’t fit my carb limit anyway) except very thin soups and I focused on raw ones as my side dish. While 1 kg fried cauliflower (raw weight) was a minimal amount to me and it’s only one course of one meal, 1 kg raw vegetables were impossible to eat during the whole day (except tomatoes or cucumbers, it probably would be easy not like I needed or tried). They feel more satisfying and a bigger amount than what they are. Keto brought me back to raw vegan recipes :smiley: But I usually just grabbed some raw veggies and ate it with my fatty protein. I don’t need that anymore but it’s still nice now and then. Juicy, crunchy, colorful things :slight_smile:
Fruit. I had to eat fruit each and every day on keto for a very long time. So I did. I banned a very few and ate all the others. But I was fine with a tiny bit - unlike in the case of vegetables. Oh and while I needed my veggies, if I ignore them for some reason, I started to desire fruits like crazy. So I rather ate enough very low-carb vegetables to avoid that. It’s in the past now.

Appetite, hunger and satiation… Keto and people are different there too. And while lowering carbs changes things for me, for example, for the better… Too low-cal just can’t happen. 1200 kcal, no way, no matter what.
1600 kcal sounds good to me, I would be a bit patient or try comfortable things, tweaking this and that, to see if something helps… After months, my eating window automatically reduced. Not like I lost afterwards (many do) but my chances and the perfectness of my satiation grew, it was more convenient too… Sometimes a change is good even if it doesn’t bring immediate results. But it’s very much about carbs for me, I don’t say the lower the better but almost, to me. We all should find our sweet spot.
Do you exercise? I find that important for health and well-being anyway but it may help a bit too. Of course almost everyone loses fat due to their eating but it doesn’t mean activity is irrelevant in it. Some of us have it easier with it. And some people get too hungry and it’s counterproductive for them.

(bulkbiker) #3
  1. Are you adding extra fat to your food ?
  2. So you have found some benefits that’s great same for 4.
  3. Its always hard to overcome something that we have been told for decades but you’ve managed that so well done.
  4. no indeed but personal experience is a very strong motivator so when faced with mostly adverse reactions from others (which is generally the case) we tend to be quite defensive… human nature after all.
  5. So you overcame your fear of fat but are still a bit convinced by the fruit and veg must be healthy “because” argument… not sure what can be done about that one unless you try a month of pure carnivore and see if that has any effect.
  6. Sounds like you have been limiting calories already to an extent? Have you been eating until full or to specific macros? Could be that your body is hanging on to the extra pounds as insurance. Beware of cutting down more if this is the case as it could make the situation worse.
    Hopefully that’s not too judgemental … I tend to shoot from the hip rather than sugar coat so …
    More importantly does that help at all?
(Scott) #4

Reporting back after another month is a good idea. My wife and I went keto at the same time. I started losing weight right away and she did not. It took much longer before she was satisfied that keto is right for her.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

Keto is a metabolic normalization process, not a weight/fat loss diet. We all came to keto after years or decades eating SAD and many sustained physical damage to varying degrees of severity. If you are a SAD casualty, you may have to repair/replace/resuscitate first depending on the severity of the wounds. The good news is that weight generally trends towards ‘normal’ as well, but may lag as fixing other stuff gets priority. Also, it’s not necessarily a linear process, so you can expect loss/gain/no change, but can also expect that over months to see a trend towards normal. The not-so-good news is that your ultimate ‘normal’ may not be what you expected or wished for. As noted by @Rclause men and women often have different experiences. Generally, men experience fewer ‘problems’ than women, and this is usually compounded by menopause. So be patient and good things will happen. :slightly_smiling_face:

(Polly) #6

There is some great advice in this post.

I am a post menopausal woman, and I agree that the menopause changes everything about how our bodies react to dietary changes. Losing some fat is possible, but we do each need to find what works for us.

What works for me at the moment is ZC in the natural pattern of IF that I had already fallen into whilst low carbing.

As soon as I up my veg intake my weight creeps up again. Earlier in the week, I had about 5lbs to lose to get to my interim target weight, but now have about half a stone to lose. This cha-cha will continue if I keep allowing myself a small portion of veg simply because I have made some for my husband.

Today, so far, I have stuck with ZC. I’ll let you know if that works for me if you’ll let me know whether your planned tweak works for you.

For what its worth, eating more protein and fat and less veg would probably be where I travelled if I were in your shoes. The Minnesota starvation experiments of the 1940s showed how reducing caloric intake hammers down on our basal metabolic rate and leads to re-bound weight gain (amongst other things). You need your body to know that there is plenty of food around and that it does not have to guard its resources.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

Vegetable oils (soybean, sunflower, safflower, corn, canola, etc.) are high in polyunsaturated fatty acids, so avoiding them should help with the nausea. Stick to saturated and monounsaturated fats, such as are found in butter, bacon grease, lard, and tallow. Use fruit oils (avocado, coconut, and olive), which have a much lower percentage of PUFA’s.

Also, making sure your table salt intake is between 10-15 grams (2-3 U.S. teaspoons), including what is already present in your food, will help with the constipation and other digestive issues.

This is one of the great benefits of a ketogenic diet. The lowered insulin stops messing with our hunger signaling.

I suppose it depends on what vegetables you are missing. I happen to like leafy greens, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, and so forth, and I do not miss potatoes, porridge, rice, or corn/maize at all. I don’t even crave sweets anymore. But, Lordy, do I find yeast bread a temptation when people leave it lying around the house!

My experience is that eating ketogenically caused the weight loss and the caloric deficit. The caloric deficit was completely unintentional and did not cause the weight loss. I lost 60-80 pounds (27-36 kilos) with no effort. Now, I could definitely stand to lose as much more, but since my metabolism is no longer dysfunctional, I am mobile at my present weight (if I get down on the floor I no longer need to struggle to get back up), and I am wearing trousers with a four-inch smaller waistband, I have no real complaints. I’d like to get back to the waistline I had during my university days, but I have no interest in forcing my body to do anything it’s not interested in doing.

(Laurie) #8

Hypat1a, I’m wondering if you eat too much fat? I don’t avoid fats, but I don’t usually add them either. In other words, I don’t try to fulfill some fat quota and I don’t put butter on my steak, etc.

I say “not usually” because I do eat something fatty when (a) I still feel hungry after finishing my meal, or (b) I know from experience that certain meals will leave me feeling hungry.

Good luck! I hope you figure out what works for you.

(Marianne) #9

Amazing and so inspiring that you have continued. Please hang in there. Keto isn’t the same for everyone, and I think most of us keep tweaking our plan throughout our journey based on how we feel, what seems to be working and what doesn’t, and what we feel our bodies are telling us.

For me after 20 months, keto has become a way of life. I guess to outsiders (family, especially!), I have given up a lot (carbs, fruit, many vegetables, etc.,), however, I have lost the incessant cravings for those foods that used to compel me, where now they are just a thought. That is a huge blessing to me. Since I have been on this, I am not ruled by food, or mired in hopelessness obsession and depression. I’ll take that any day.

Maybe your weight is coming off more slowly because you don’t have so much to lose (?). For me, now, I don’t think about time or when I get to my desired weight and can “come off” this. I am here to stay. It’s just become a comfortable way of life that I wouldn’t trade. If you can maybe think of it that way, then you can accept if you progress is slower than you’d like. Do you notice any other changes in your body besides what the scale says? Since starting keto, the only time I get weighed is at the doctor’s. That is enough. I hate the scale; it was never a good thing to me.

Best to you.

(KCKO, KCFO 🥥) #11

So much good information.

I can second all of this, and I am post meno woman who has had very good success with keto/lchf WOE. PaulL may not be one, but the info is spot on.

editing to add: I am on other forums and on MFP’s forums, some people there, both men and women, report going up to 4 months without losing, their bodies need the time to balance out. Dr. Phinney has stated up to 2 months is not uncommon. So don’t give up too soon. If you feel better, have less hunger, etc. Keep at it.

All the best in your journey

#12

Out of interest, what makes you believe this?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #13

There’s no denying that losing fat—or lean tissue, for that matter—involves a disparity between energy taken in and energy expended or excreted, however the dispute is over the direction of causality. The CICO model focuses on using the creation of an energy deficit to drive weight loss (lean or fat), whereas the theory behind eating a ketogenic diet says that putting the body into fat-loss mode by eating a certain way causes the energy deficit. It’s not entirely a matter of semantics, because there are practical implications from the difference in viewpoints.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

@Hypat1a In addition, there’s energy wasting via excreted ketones and BAT heat. Bikman talks about these. The implication is that an energy deficit induced by caloric restriction is not even necessary to lose fat mass while in ketosis. I think we probably have a lot of forum members who can relate to this.

#15

That was a very worthwhile watch; thank you for sharing it.