Keto and carnivore are very different. I eat 3 lb of meat a day and my glucose is tested every 6 months. There’s a big difference between adaptive glucose sparing, my HBA1C has come down on carnivore where it was rock solid on keto. Zc 2+ yrs Oh I eat about 65 or 70% fat to protein
Oh and I am losing weight, my weight loss stalls if I eat closer to pounds a day.
Yes, I should have stated that what they go for first is the organs. If lions take prey in a pack everything is pretty much consumed as well. But if they leave something behind, it’s not the organs and fat around them but the lean.
And indeed, as you mention, we’re not lions.
We’re also not even living in a context of early humans. Maybe appetite and nutrition are self regulating if:
You’re having to go out and hunt, dress, carry back and cook an animal
You don’t have several decades of eating crap behind you.
Fangs is a zealot and a big fan of circular reasoning, so none of this will matter.
geez tamed lions vs. carb coma chem. coma people. yea who thrives. no one
I am talking your ‘seemingly’ statement that carnivore other version than your own being done is 24/7 all you can eat steak fest… not even close. All those living on a ribeye are wrong? All those eating xyz meat/seafood are all wrong?
your wording of the carnivore plan as a whole seemed very wrong to me.
do you truly say carnivores can eat too much protein cause they feast 24/7 and eat it all wrong? cause if this is what your saying…we can go there LOL the tone of what you said is wrong to me.
Is the basic carnivore plan wrong as you see it?
we do not 24/7 all you can eat steak fest. Do you think all us carnivores ONLY eat a steak fest and if some eat whatever all beef carnivore as they do, are ya saying we are doing it all wrong and not up to ‘a healthy carnivore in the wild, as per a lion’ would do it?
oh man the bad of this all is scary from you if you are going down this road, hey, I mighta misunderstood but from the tone of it I thought you were putting down carnivore and saying if one does not eat ‘perfect’ and eat ‘too much protein’ then carnivore is not a plan worth being in existence.
here’s some info from a few long term muscle meat only carnivores… (5-8-10 years http://www.zerocarbhealth.com/too-much-protein/
how about a anthropologist… https://jevohealth.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1096&context=journal
Ben-Dor says we hunted fat- and lean animals only had fat around their organs- we have no need to eat organs when we have fatty meat-
Much Better After Quitting Keto
12 year carnivore and owner of ZIOH who has helped thousands over more than a decade… http://www.zerocarbhealth.com/limiting-protein-here-we-go-again/
Thank goodness for carnivores like Elizedge who have info to support when needed on demand Appreciate your info. help here E! Might be time for some to read about carnivore in truth and experiences thru long term carnivore use (and saying this in general to the forum of course now) and research and learn. Great info posted.
I do believe type one diabetics and those with preexisting kidney disease are the exceptions. (Or some hereditary issue)
of course small group of exceptions and that will always be the case in life. agreed!
Thank you, Elizabeth! Great find. This is an excellent study very apropos to the discussion of this topic. I highly recommend that everyone interested in human ancestral diet read it.
so where are the “many” putting on weight after a few years carnivore? I have been on the boards for 4 years, carnivore over 2 and don’t know of any, in groups of over 60K people…
I “think” I know where you are coming from- you have health issues which drew you to PKD. I have no issue with their protocol for seriously sick people. But there’s is not a permanent woe for most. I eat at least double, often triple their recommendations and still lose weight and improve markers (I get huge amounts of blood work every 6 months, have for years) Most people leave carnivore or don’t get results because they don’t eat enough. Decades not only of n+1 but helping thousands (10/s of thousands) has shown an average of 2 pounds of meat is a good start. Many need quite a bit more. Our vets mod for no compensation (no one vet has a book lol) and if fasting, 90% fat, restricting, no dairy, etc. was useful they would be recommending it.
I’ve heard another long term carnivore, (10+ years) who had herself put on significant weight after years on carnivore, discussing the issue. She said it was a thing.
But, you guys don’t seem to understand that you are looking through a lens of selection bias. Don’t you see that the carnivore failures are not on the carnivore forums. But, seriously, 60K carnivores and none gain weight? I’ve seen a handful here alone.
From Dana Spencer:
“Most people lose fat on the Zero Carb Diet, but some people gain weight. As frustrating as this is, there really is no quick fix and for some it may be something you just have to accept if you want to be healthy.”
I know this article well (I’m on the site page) We call it Zero Carb HEALTH not weight loss- many come to Zc underweight or, like me, strict keto and restricting calories and protein. I did gain the first month- and then LOST when I INCREASED to 3 pounds of fatty meat a day. No exercise. Dana herself gained because of MENOPAUSE- weight is 80% or more HORMONES. There are many sick thin people or even tofi. The natural body will usually fall into a slightly higher weight than Vogue and Cosmo say we should be…We need to eat as much healthy fatty meat as we like and let our very clever bodies sort it out- FOR MOST PEOPLE.
And this is all that I’ve been recommending in this thread. I’m not anti carnivore. I’m saying that we don’t know the long term implications of this diet in humans and that carnivores should get bloodwork done and take any increases in glucose or insulin seriously and consider the likely dietary cause. If your bloodwork is normal or improving then great. It’s not a problem for you. That’s how I’m rolling with it myself.
my fasting glucose is the highest it’s ever been (100ish from 80s and 90s) but my HbA1c dropped from 5.5 over the last 7 years to 5.3 at 19 mo. carnivore.
I don’t doubt your n=1 experience.
However, in an area as complicated as nutrition, with literally thousands of variables like (epi)genetics, environmental toxins, individual conditions (leaky gut, inflammation) and so on it’s not possible to generalize.
And, as I have mentioned, carnivore might be a cure to existing conditions, that has to be maintained for a while. It might take years to shift our metabolism back into normal range (or maybe we never do), but after that we may have a new game. Someone deep in metabolic syndrome might have a different definition of “optimal” than a metabolically healthy patient.
Ah, I’m wasting my time, saying this for the 100th time here.