Weight Watchers stock hit hard by falling earnings

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(Bunny) #104

Never thought you would ask…lol

That is exactly what I eat and the way I eat!

How do you think I maintain a ketogenic metabolism?

Do you really think eating 20 grams of carbs indefinitely is the answer or sustainable? (that is why people fall off the wagon with that kind of thinking. e.g. maybe a person has diabetes and working to reverse it, then 20 grams of carbs may be the way to go for a longer duration?)

Everybody is different it just depends on where your at metabolically; being fully ketogenically adapted and your ability to oxidize sugar or those healthier “unrefined” carbohydrates!


(Keto butts drive me nuts) #105

I’ve done both WW and KETO successfully. You do u boo………….


(Jane) #106

No, my husband maintains ketosis at 100 g carbs per day. I gain weight at that level, so I alternate between higher carb days, very low carb days and fasting to maintain. My higher carbs days do not include sugar or processed carbs.

But WW is a weight-loss program that people pay money for, and I still believe the failure rate at 200 carbs, 1200 cal/day is much higher than keto.

Maintenance is a different animal altogether and everyone has to find their own setpoint.

So - question for you. You can maintain a state of ketosis with > 50% of your daily intake carbs every day?

That’s amazing! You must have a fantastic metabolism!


(Bunny) #107

I can go up to 200 grams in carbs (peeking at ketone meter) for long durations (weeks) but that is a lot of food for me!

So two things I look at

  1. Duration

  2. Frequency

Of carbohydrate intake!

But I choose to eat only once a day or basically when I’m hungry.

I see some people making posts about parting ways with the ketogenic diet (under this 20 gram standard) because they are not feeling quite so well and I don’t blame them (they are fed up and frustrated), I think is more of a lack of not understanding what ketosis actually is and understanding how to maintain what they worked so hard to do?


(Scott) #108

Why of course it is not flat. It’s all uphill!

Edit after being flagged: I get that this was flagged for being off topic but it was a tongue in cheek attempt at humor and quoted a previous post. To flag a one sentence post that is obviously humor as “off topic” is a bit of a reach.


(Diane) #109

Weight Watchers on its own never worked for me except in the very short term. I believe now that I’ve had a damaged metabolism since I was anorexic (probably, but never officially diagnosed) at age 14 to 15 (9th grade).

That year, I didn’t eat until I got home (no one noticed I was skipping breakfast and didn’t know I wasn’t eating lunch at school), I would eat half a tuna sandwich and 1/2 cup of green veggies when I got home and I would take a nap because I was always tired. I excercised like crazy. I bet I was eating 500 calories per day or so during that year and doing maybe 4 hours of excercise a day (running, riding a bike and calisthenics). My dad bought me some multivitamins and insisted I take them because he thought I was starting to look sickly. I was 5’5” and weighed 105 lbs. I could fit into a pair of jeans from the third grade (I made them into shorts).

When I started Keto, I joined Weight Watchers at the same time. I didn’t follow their diet, but I felt it kept me accountable by weighing in each week and the meetings were actually helpful. I liked being part of a community that was sharing their efforts to track their food intake (I didn’t use their app, I used Chronometer). The leader was compassionate and thoughtful. I really liked him.

Then about January 2018 WW changed to their new Freestyle program. The meetings became intolerable. Instead of focusing on changing habits and looking at all the other aspects of one’s life that affect weight loss (eg psychological), it became about the differences in following the freestyle program. Freestyle ruined WW for me, it stopped being helpful. I stopped being able to contribute in the meetings. It took some time to come to this realization.

The entire time I was participating in the weekly meetings, I noticed people with the body type which indicated insulin resistance to me. I would think to myself, ketogenic eating is the answer these people are looking for. But then came the week I was waiting to weigh in and the leader was in the corner with a (comparatively) new member in the corner. She was in tears and I could clearly hear their conversation. She was desperate, she had been perfect. She was following the program meticulously and not only was she NOT losing weight, she had actually gained.

Between my feelings about the changes that the introduction of WW Freestyle had brought to the weekly meetings and the sincere despair of this young woman, I never went back again. I felt it was the wrong venue to preach a ketogenic way of life. And I didn’t think I could watch these people struggle and keep my mouth shut any longer. So, I was done!

Many people start and stop WW many times. They aren’t particularly successful. They come back because it may be the best answer in CICO model. In my opinion, they come back because they don’t see any other reasonably affordable alternatives. They blame THEMSELVES for the failure of the program. They come back determined to work it right this time. If the program REALLY worked (if CICO REALLY worked for even a good percentage of the severely obese members), people wouldn’t fail so often and come back to try again years later.

WW is a failed model for the severely obese, insulin resistant population. In my hopeful moments, I believe that the decline of WW stock value is a sign that more and more of these individuals are finding a ketogenic way of life and have stopped going back to WW for another failed attempt. God, I hope so.


(Scott) #110

I am more of a <50g carbs a day person and it feels very easy and sustainable for me. I have no desire or intention to leave this way of eating. This is just me but judging from the amount of threads with title of “cheat day”, “fell of the wagon” etc. sustainable will have a different degree of difficulty for all, much like any other diet. I would love to see a study that tracks all diets and list effectiveness. I doubt it will ever happen but of the things measured I would be interested in time on diet, weight lost, weight gained after or whether lower weight and WOE was maintained.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #111

Both ways!

And we like it! :grin:


(Jane) #112

Yep. Do you think you would lose the other health benefits of keto eating 200 g carbs per day?

For me, personally - my inflammation would come back if I ate 200 every day. Even OMAD.


(Jane) #113

I know they reboot their program when sales fall off but I hadn’t heard about their latest Freestyle program.

So… a diet of unlimited bananas and other high sugar fruits is considered ketogenic???

:rofl:

Saturated fats are unhealthy. Lean meats are preferred. Yep - all hallmarks of a ketogenic diet!

:laughing: :laughing: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I want some of what Dr. Attia is smoking!!!


(Brian) #114

… in the snow, with no shoes… LOL!!


(Stickin' with mammoth) #115

Hell, yeah, it’s sustainable. And the definition of the wagon and whether or not one falls off of it is, blissfully, in the eye of the keto beholder.

The few times I exceeded my own keto guidelines turned out to be invaluable scientific experiments yielding piles of personal data. I learned which parameters remained intact on keto (sugar is Satan in red man-panties) and which ones had changed (alcohol = ouch!), I learned my taste buds had calmed down (spices are meh) while my old psychology had not (“You’re not a dog, don’t treat yourself with food.”) I look forward to launching more experiments each year to see how much I’ve evolved.

Keto has been awesome but “falling off the wagon” was one of the most vital parts of it. I don’t call it “falling off the wagon,” I call it Quality Control Experiments. No regrets.

I hear a rooster crowing somewhere…

Yup. Sustainable is just another word for normal for those of us enjoying feeling good. Actually, I feel like we have it easier than those with higher carb intake. We’ll never have to worry about dancing the razor’s edge between safe food and “other.” Our low daily carb allotment keeps the steering wheel steady. Keto on.


(Diane) #116

You know, if WW tweaked their Freestyle program and at least made meats and ONLY keto friendly veggies free (and fat- but that would NEVER happen) and made you count points for fruit and starchy veggies, it would be a big step in the right direction. If they could somehow find a better way to encourage members to emliminate all added sugars (in all its forms), white flour, and rice; it would be another big step in the right direction.


(Brian) #117

LOL!!! Thank you for the word picture! I laughed a good laugh from that one!


(Stickin' with mammoth) #118


(Jane) #119

I agree. They could even join the “fad diet” craze and offer those options in their literature.

But… until they remove “unhealthy fats” from their literature when referring to saturated fats they will remain hopelessly outdated and stuck in an old paradigm.

How anyone could make the claim that lean meats, unlimited fruits and avoiding saturated fast is keto is beyond me. Or defend a Dr who makes that claim. Sheesh.


(Diane) #121

I’ve been eating ketogenically for 18 months. I find this way of eating (restricting carbs to <20 grams of net carbs a day) extremely sustainable. My cravings for my favorite carbs (bread, potatoes [ok, French fries], fruits, and popcorn) have almost entirely fallen away.

When I want fruit, or can fit it into my macros, I have blackberries (or whichever other berries are on sale).

I still have a lot of weight to lose (~120 lbs) and I find that if I let my net carbs drift up to about 50 grams or so, I can maintain, but I stop losing.

I’m not suffering eating ketogenically. I’m eating whole, fresh foods for the most part. I’m getting all those flavorful, healthy and satisfying fats. I have no problem imagining myself eating this way forever.

When I finally reach my goal weight, maybe I’ll increase my veggies or add in a few beets or peas. I don’t know. But if that never happens, no big loss. I like my food, as is, now. I don’t feel overly restricted like I did on Weight Watchers. Every day on WW was a battle that got harder and harder each day until I gave up. On the other hand, I find that a Keto way of life gets easier and easier over time.

I’m sticking with Keto!


(Bunny) #122

I cannot count how many times have I seen people make these types of statements then come back months later welp I fell off the wagon ready to keto all over again… hmmmm?


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #123

Happens to addicts all the time, until they finally surrender and admit their addiction.

In my own case, the cravings for sugar and other carbohydrates are quite unrelated to the satisfaction of my ketogenic diet. My food completely satisfies me, and I don’t find the diet restrictive at all. However, I crave sugar/carbs even when my hunger is fully satisfied. It’s the clearest demonstration of the distinction between hunger and food addiction that I could wish for.

I’ve been very fortunate that the few times in the past two years when I’ve actually eaten carbohydrate in quantity failed to spark a binge. By rights, I should be at Dunkin Donuts right now, chowing down on a few dozen glazed doughnuts, but by the grace of God, I’m not.


(Diane) #124

Time will definitely tell. I guess I can only speak to how I feel now. I do have a bigger motivation than some people in that even my short term ability to have any quality of life depends on this way of life.