We need MUCH less protein that we've been told

(Mike W.) #1

I feel I’ve posted this 3-4 times now and nobody is willing to accept this might be true. I love meat and cheese as much as the next guy but why is everyone so fixated on the “.8-1gm/kg LBM” figure which is essentially made up? The science proves that excess protein is turned to fat but why is nobody willing to accept that? Is there any science to prove otherwise? I’m looking to learn the truth.
https://idmprogram.com/how-much-protein-is-excessive/

(Rob) #2

See my response to one of the other threads where you say this. You are eating 1.1g/kg of LBM when you do 80g of protein so I’m not clear what you are worried about on the low end.

Richard shows that you can get away with less and that’s probably good but there is little issue with more if gluconeogenesis is demand driven except for the slightly higher insulin response to protein than fat. My 2c anyway.

(Mike W.) #3

My statement of 80g was incorrect.

(Bunny) #4

The proposition in the article referenced about amount of protein required is that it is trying to reach a position in relations to fixed ideas that everyone is eating too much protein etc…

The problem with the ‘one size fits all’ kind of thinking is that it cannot be applied to everyone as everyone is at different levels of metabolic health and rates of speed which the body can metabolize the dietary compositions! E.g. two people may be at the same level of metabolic fitness but when person three tries it, he or she fails?

The question then becomes what is the right amount of protein and fat for which stage of that specific body types level of metabolic fitness?

One person may require more fat intake and/or less fat intake in contrast to amount of protein (less or more) which is the key to getting into Ketosis (and actually lose weight and maintain that metabolic state of fitness) as doctors can attest to this and evaluate (e.g. Dr. Eric Berg et al.) what works and does not work on their patients doing keto!

Here is where you hit a brick wall:

“I am in Ketosis but I am not burning fat (losing real weight other than water weight & muscle mass gain or loss), but I am following all the guideline numbers? (scratches head)”

So what do you do?

Start increasing or decreasing the fat and protein intake variables to find out when the weight loss starts to happen!

Once you ramp up (heal the metabolism) the metabolic speed then you can increase carbs once fully keto adapted after an average of 6 months!

I have tested these methods on myself and they do work flawlessly!

(Karen) #5

My nephrologists allows me 65 to 80 g. I stay low, but have some wiggle room.

K

(Pete A) #6

The argument for me that there’s such a thing as too much protein loses. Throughout my almost six months Keto, I haven’t had a stall, wasn’t too focused on grams of protein, and I’m sure really overate on it the first couple of months.

I recently started watching it based on lean body mass protein needs and generally hit it or under, but not too concerned if I sometimes go over either!

Some days (for me) call for a pound of ribeye or a whole chicken!

(Michael ) #7

I’ll take excess protein over sugar any day. Turning protein into fat is not a very efficient process and protein is very satiating.

#8

All I know is what my body tells me - and when I go too high on protein (over 80) I bump out of ketosis or stall. Am thinking for me I probably need to lower to 50-60gm and bump up the fat.

(Brian) #9

This is another of those areas that I’m not convinced anyone can nail down. It’s just like the question of, “How many carbs is too many?”

Some will do better if they are on the low end and some will NOT do well when they are on the low end. Some will do better on the high end and some will NOT do well on the high end.

One size does not fit all, no matter how evangelistic one might be about what fits them personally.

#10

From a body composition standpoint, it’s known that some people can eat large amounts of protein without ill effects. It’s also known that some people have much less metabolic flexibility. The spectrum is well represented on this forum.

From an optimal health perspective, several physicians in the LC community have cautioned against high protein consumption. Each of these have talked about it in their books: Dr Perlmutter, neurologist and author of Grain Brain (and subsequent books). Dr Wahls, an autoimmune expert and author of the Wahls Protocol. Dr Mercola, who has probably been in this space longer than anybody, author of Fat for Fuel (and many others).

Reading research papers is above my pay grade (and interest level). So I rely on interpretations from experts much smarter and more knowledgeable than me. My basic understanding is that large quantities of protein trigger excess activation of mTor and IGF. And that increases risk of disease and accelerates aging.

There are a few vloggers who conduct interviews that do deep dives into the science. Found My Fitness by Rhonda Patrick, PhD and High Intensity Health by Mike Mutzel come to mind. Dr Longo, one of the oft qouted researchers conducting humans trials, has commented extensively on macros and restricting protein. Ditto for Dr. D’Agostino.

Many (if not most) of us have bodies that can handle a wide range of dietary onslaught, especially in the short term. I’m an expert at what’s working for my body today. Where I need guidance is identifying the practices that I currently engage in that may take years to manifest detrimental effects. I’m convinced there’s enough scientific evidence showing the adverse effects of excess protein to optimal health over the long term.

#11

Carb tolerance absolutely can be nailed down. No speculation is necessary. No research needs to be conducted. Its determined empirically, and not all that difficult to do.

It has to be measured individually, just like determining shoe size: I wear a size 9, as do a lot of other folks; my sister wears a size 7, also a common size; there are relatively few folks who need a size 12, like my dad. Same concept applies to carb tolerance.

(Mike W.) #12

Both of those are easy to figure out. Too many carbs and it will kick you of Ketosis. Too much protein and your BG will change.

#13

I think that most people (in our circles at least) don’t have issues with those numbers BUT when it comes to us dudes, many of us are also in the gym and looking to GAIN muscle, not just maintain what we have and in that case we need protein just like the sugar burners. Not completely insane amounts, but 1.5-2g/kg LBM is pretty normal if your moving some weight around. I also think many are using guesses when it comes to starting points with calculators vs actually getting a measurement done and having some real numbers to work with. I’ve done much better since I keep my protein up regularly. It’s still not high by any means but I’m around 120g or so lately and I feel better in the gym that way. For a while I was cutting myself off around 80 or so to see if it helped with weight loss. It did a little but being higher feels better in the gym. If I enter the 150-175 zone that’s usually when I can’t sleep, wake up on fire and sweaty.

(Andrew Roberts) #14

Dr Ron Rosedale gives a brilliant talk on Youtube that discusses the bad things that excess protein can do for cancer and longetivity. https://youtu.be/Yv-M-5-s9B0

(What The Fast?!) #15

Do you mean 1-1.5gm per KG of LBM? The two most common references (one for kg’s and one for lb’s) for protein are as follows:
1-1.5g/kg of LBM
0.6-1g/lb of LBM

Example: I have 98 lbs (44.45 kg) of LBM (per DEXA). My reference ranges are:
based on kg: 44-66g of protein
based on lb: 59-98g of protein

(TJ Borden) #16

I wish the was an easy correlation there.

I wear an 11 wide; what are my macro requirements? :smile:

(Mike W.) #17

I wear a 15w. Does that mean I get more protein? :joy:

(Brian) #18

Which is exactly what I was trying to say. Guess I didn’t say it so well.

(Justin Jordan) #19

I’ve got 160 pounds of lean mass, and I’ve not noticed any ill effects of doing 50 -75 grams a day - no loss of lean mass, no problems lifting. But keeping it that low does have a benefit for my blood sugar (I’m type 2 diabetic)

(Justin Cain Hoffman ) #20

Rookie question of the day ladies and gentlemen.
So it’s NOT 1g protein per pound of bodyweight?