Water Fast

(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #22

Both of them, actually, are on record as stating that fasts longer than three days require the supervision of a physician.

One thing we do know is that all proteins appear to have a designed lifespan, ranging from several seconds to several years (I’d love to know how they determined this), so autophagy must be going on at some level all the time. Also, damage to a protein causes that protein to be proteolysed (broken down).

As Prof. Benjamin Bikman states, the metabolism is never completely catabolic or completely anabolic, since both sets of processes are needed all the time, but the body does have states in which one set predominates, and fasting is a predominantly catabolic state.

I think this is the wisest statement in the entire thread. :+1:

And this is the second-wisest comment! :+1: and one with which I heartily agree.

(k) #23

Why did you lose muscle, not enough protein?
Were you working out. I watch the weight to see things are moving as you said. It’s the measurements which am focused on. Am seeing a difference, but feel am dropping muscle too. Another 2 weeks to a month might give me a better idea.


A combination of not enough protein (still sucked up at the time of the fear of “too much protein”) and fasting combined with eating to satiety instead of forcing in what I knew I needed. Also slowed my metabolism down and couldn’t figure it out until I had it measured. Wasn’t fun!

On the working out, yes, lifting 5-6x week. Cardio usually 2x/weekly.

(Bob M) #25

Did not know that. Guess I should have had a physician for the 10+ (lost count) 4.5-5.5 day fasts I’ve done. For the 5.5 day fast, I was going to go 7, but I was getting dizzy when I stood up. That was my cue it was time to end it. :wink:

Personally, I think Fung is better than Phinney when it comes to fasting. It might be different for doing studies on athletes.

(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #26

No need for sarcasm, Bob! :smile:

I was just stating facts. I have heard both Dr. Phinney and Megan Ramos (and even Dr. Fung in a video), warn about fasting longer than three days without medical supervision. Not that anyone listens.

But there are plenty of people who fast longer without worrying about that. The human race has been fasting for about the last six thousand years that I know about, and there is plenty of evidence to show that forty days without food is not going to do anyone all that much harm. (As long as you don’t try to fast that long on your first attempt.)

The point of my earlier post was simply to point out that Dr. Phinney and Dr. Fung are not actually as far apart on the issue of extended fasting as most people seem to believe.

(k) #27

I might not be getting enough protein either, as have started to water fast 2,3 4 days. I don’t eat too many calories on other days as want to stay at 20g carbs and it limits my intake.
Whats your advise, should I avoid the fasts and get in enough protein, or just on work out days. I’m doing 4 days a week and cardio 2/3 times a week, some days on the same day. Don’t want to end up skinny fat.
How did you get your metabolism measured, those machines? Did it not reset from long fasts?


So I’m clearly biased on this one, but I’m pretty anti fasting at this point. Now when I want to “fast” I do PSMF’s. To me, now, anybody in the gym lifting or that cares about muscle mass should only do those as the fats loss is pretty much equal to a water fast, and you don’t have to worry about loosing muscle on them. Whatever you figure out your protein intake requirement to be, get it in every day. Most that are lifting go with 1g/lb bodyweight. That gives you some wiggle room in both directions.

Mine sure as hell didn’t, it measured at 1700! I’m a 5’9" dude at the time I think I was around 230lbs, lifting heavy 5x week, cardio 2-3x week and that’s all I could burn. It took going down to 1500-1600 cals and then I started loosing again and then I started reverse dieting to get it back up. On the machines, a lot of high end gyms have them, I got mine done at a place that trains cyclists. They usually do them on spin bikes to find their Vo2max. I did it sitting in a chair because I was only getting my RMR done. About 20 mins of just hanging out. Wasn’t bad at all, mask is a little uncomfortable (tight). I’m considering doing another to see how far I’ve come on paper, another training place I found is doing a package of RMR testing plus a DEXA scan for $130! Pretty descent deal! A lot of places are desperate for business and it’s showing. One of the few positives to come from the world going to hell is it’s seemed to hit the reset button on a lot of price gouging that used to just be accepted.