WATCH: Dr. Dean Ornish Debunks Low Carb Ketogenic Diet

science
(Leslie) #1

Show me the science
@carl @richard
Is there any truth to this theory? Are there reliable scientific studies describing “clogged arteries” in keto people vs carb? Did Atkins ever get this study done?

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #2

Let’s see…
It’s in Plant Based News… I’m skeptical.
It features Dean Ornish… I’m more skeptical.

I’m very skeptical that Dean Ornish has ever looked at the arteries of an actual Atkins dieter. No person doing well on keto would ever go to see Atkins.

Dr. Jeffry Gerber, Denver’s Diet Doctor, has a perfect zero CAC score. 15 year low carb eater…

I believe Jimmy Moore who has been low carb for about the same time, also has a zero CAC score. As does Ivor Cummins…

I’m afraid that Dr. Ornish needs to show me the science. Let’s see his CAC scan…

(bulkbiker) #3

The comments say it all really…

(CharleyD) #4

To be the most, superhumanly, generous to the claim, I’d bet that there are plenty of folks with coronary plaques when they START keto!

Of course plaque + keto = bad, so thus ends any critical thinking.

#5

Funny how the vegans have a need to “debunk” alternative approaches, whereas keto folks seem more intellectually tolerant and curious.

I’m thinking it may be the improved mood and mental clarity that many Keto folks report.

(Bunny) #6

I second the motion!

(Todd Allen) #7

Thanks for the link, reading the comments made me smile. Surprisingly no militant vegans were present supporting Ornish’s quackery. For all the talk of keto being unsustainable diet comparison studies show low retention for those trialing Ornish’s diet.

Here’s an article in Scientific American that takes a critical look at Ornish’s advice.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-almost-everything-dean-ornish-says-about-nutrition-is-wrong/

(karen) #8

I’m pretty sure Dean Ornish doesn’t care if he’s wrong. He gets an astonishing amount of free publicity from being so controversial and keeping himself relevant, and preaches his hellfire and brimstone to a choir already primed to believe him by 50+ years of low fat high carb “wisdom” (thank you, Ancel Keys.):money_mouth_face:

(Leslie) #9

That is an extraordinary piece. Thank you for the link. I’ve decided never again to consider anything from Dr. Ornish as he seems unable to analyze data objectively

(Leslie) #10

This forum, and you guys, are all amazing. Thank you so much for your knowledge and for the education you’ve gained.
I’m so glad to be able to learn these invaluable lessons and see the science for myself.
Keto for life

KCKO

(Todd Allen) #11

I’d say unwilling to be objective. I think he and most of the other leading proponents of veganism are well educated and reasonably well versed in scientific principles but they are against consumption of animal products for reasons other than health. In pursuit of their agenda they strongly want to believe and promote the idea of animal products being unhealthful and selectively use/abuse science.

(Georgia) #12

I got all eye rolly when he said you could lose weight with depression. I don’t think depression, per se, causes weight loss. I think people we are depressed eat less, therefore they lose weight. The same could be said about the “chemo” diet. The guy’s an idiot. Oh, and I thought Dr. Atkins died from hitting his head on an icy sidewalk and not from heart disease. According to Snopes, his cause of death is undetermined.

(Leslie) #13

I appreciate that point. I too am against the use of animals for reasons other than health and in fact, am opposed to the manner in which animals are produced and slaughtered in the United States. However, I’m smart enough to know when I need to shift my paradigm to embrace a new concept.
I don’t eat the chickens, beef or pork produced in the US, but I am keto without it, happily. Balance and nutrition. My life is AMAZING!

(Karen) #14

Thanks for sharing the article.

K

#15

I am agreeing with you 100%. I am too absolutely opposed to the way animals are kept and slaughtered in North America. And I also do not eat chicken, pork or beef but am still LCHF and I am also fasting to keep myself alive and so far it works quite well. I am glad I survived my illness and chemotherapy by changing my eating habits to WHEN and WHAT to eat.

(Jay AM) #16

What was undetermined is whether he fell because of a heart attack. His official death is ruled as a terminal traumatic brain injury. They didn’t do an autopsy because of the family. He did have a heart attack in his life which he said was due to infection and not diet. But, that was before his death.

(Leslie) #17

See…now that’s a real bugger! This Dr. Ornish and his compatriots cannot even be truthful about the manner of death for another human being. It seems they will say anything to get people to listen to their invalid results and junk science.

Makes me hot!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #18

Their founder, Pritikin, commited suicide. Of course, he had terminal cancer that he put in remission with ULF and whole lean foods, for a decade or more, but keto advocates never really present that part of the story.

(Todd Allen) #19

I feel likewise. I’m horrified by industrial agriculture. In high school I took a summer job in a battery cage egg farm. One chore was walking the cages to remove dead and dying hens. I only lasted a week. I stopped eating eggs. Much of my adult life I was vegetarian or vegan. I was stupid about it though and did myself a lot of damage oblivious to some severe deficiencies I developed such as B12. I believed I was following the healthiest of diets as I embraced eating lots of fresh fruits and vegetables and had little clue that the huge amounts of fruit juices and flour products I was consuming were making me increasingly insulin resistant and causing ever more damage.

While industrial animal operations are the most stomach turning aspect of modern ag, all of it is bad. Drive across the midwest in the growing season and one sees acre after acre of corn and soy. Very little wildlife, even much of the insects and other plant species (weeds) are suppressed by frequent applications of poisons. Outside of the growing season one sees a lot of barren mostly sterile ground. In places such as California, Texas and Florida that grow most of the fruits and vegetables and other vegan staples one can also see a lot of environmental damage.

My wife and I are trying to disconnect from industrial ag as much as we can. Most of our yard and all of our sun facing windows are dedicated to growing food, mostly for us, but some for the wildlife too. Incorporating chickens into our gardening has helped tremendously as the chickens till our beds, eat pests and weeds, process our crop waste, work our compost piles and have restored the vitality of our soil and crops. And they cost us a few vegan friends who can’t see the difference between exploitation and partnering with animals.

(James H Shaffer) #20

another hack lost in ancient doctrine. have first hand knowledge of both diets and never lost weight as easily as I have on keto, at least for me there is no comparison!