Wanting more info from latest TKD podcast

(Erin Macfarland ) #1

I loved the latest episode about the development of IR and am really curious about one point of discussion. It was mentioned that people who are heavier in their early years are more likely to avoid metabolic disorders as they got older but people who became heavier later in life were more likely to develop those disorders. It was thought that this is because the person who is heavier early on developed more fat cells that weren’t as full as the people who got heavy later in life whose fat cells were fewer in number but became fuller in volume . Anyone know where to read more about this? It’s fascinating!

(Richard Morris) #2

@erdoke will have a couple of papers on the subject :slight_smile:

But my understanding is when you are younger and you signal the body to store energy it makes more new fat cells. When you are older it stuffs the energy in the cells that are already there. So if 2 people are storing the same amount of extra energy, they one with more fat cells will see less metabolic derangement because their cells are not all filled to breaking point.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #3

Would be interesting to know if, once having been overweight and reduced that significantly, whether subsequent weight gain would be more or less likely to lead to derangement. Or whether, in cases where autophagy has been in action, if the “extra” fat cells are removed, either in part or in toto, and subsequent gain would again result in too few adipocytes being created, and their being overfilled.

Very interesting subject, once again leading to frustration that I don’t have 28 hours in a day so I can devote more time to understanding the mechanisms (to the extent it’s possible!).

(Gabor Erdosi) #4

I’m not sure I have popular science sources at hand.
In general, it’s true that fat cell precursors (adipocyte progenitors) mostly develop during childhood and adolescence. However, there are some interesting tidbits that should be noted:

  1. Some people seem to be able to add new fat cells later in life as well. I know some folks who were not even overweight during adolescence, but still gained hundreds of pounds of extra weight, while remaining metabolically healthy.
  2. Studies in MZ (true) twins, i.e. with same genetic and epigenetic background, as well as common stimuli during childhood and adolescence, show that environmental factors later in life can still cause profound differences in weight gain and metabolic health.
(Erin Macfarland ) #5

So cool. I guess I’m glad I had my chubby phase early on hahah!

(Erin Macfarland ) #6

That is fascinating…

(Erin Macfarland ) #7

Yes!! I would love to know this too

(Gabor Erdosi) #8

A very good, albeit sometimes a bit technical read about adipose tissue:

(Erin Macfarland ) #9

I like this better than the lame ass book I started reading, the secret life of fat, which started to have good science-y stuff then devolved into an argument for CICO :roll_eyes:

(Gabor Erdosi) #10

IMG_0468.PNG2048×1480 1.04 MB

This one is also an excellent review, just one year earlier than the one above. Both group of authors are big guns of adipose tissue research.

What We Talk About When We Talk About Fat
http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(13)01546-8

#11

Erdoke, I find the dynamics of building fat cells while young pretty interesting. I was a chunky kid growing up while my brother was the type who could eat two peanut butter and jelly sandwiches after a full supper (with double and triple servings) every night as a bed time snack and remain athletic, muscular and lean. Fast forward to today, my brother and I could stand next to each other, and we both look good, wearing the skinny tight jeans and all, but he has recently been diagnosed with diabetes and other issues needing medication and all, while I have never been on prescription medication (except for a few times many years ago for only a week to get over a flu or cold during the winter). I have to fight a hard fight to remain in good shape or lose the last few pounds, while my brother never had to confront that issue. However, from a metabolic disorder point of view, he has it a lot worse than me.

So, the concept of building fat cells while young makes sense (or at least it coincides with my experience). What I still don’t understand is how the heck I used to put on weight while I was a kid by just looking at food, while my brother would shovel it in and not gain. Same mother and father. So, that remains a mystery.

(Erin Macfarland ) #12

Oh great points!!

(Gabor Erdosi) #13

Sex hormones have a profound effect on fat distribution. No wonder less masculine males are more prone to be fat, and obesity causes a drop in testosterone. At the same time, ramped up testosterone production during adolescence prevent the addition of new fat cells, and the result is that most males are predisposed to abdominal obesity and related metabolic diseases.

#14

Well, interesting concept on the sex hormones. But, not convinced for another personal observation. What I didn’t mention is that I have more siblings. They are younger…so, still don’t know how the situation will turn out for them…as in will they develop diabetes or other metabolic issues? I don’t know. But, the conditions are flipped, as in lean female siblings and overweight male siblings. So, this rules out sex as the discriminating factor. And again, same mother and father. A fascinating mystery.

(Erin Macfarland ) #15

That is a great observation

(Gabor Erdosi) #16

One of the dozen twin studies Ivor mentioned in his interview and talk. The takeaway is that once the lean twin changes his/her lifestyle to the worse, the outcome is known from the metabolic health of the obese co-twin. The reason is that they share not only genetic and epigenetic backgrounds, but also lifestyle during adolescence.
Characterising metabolically healthy obesity in weight-discordant monozygotic twins

(Erin Macfarland ) #17

And when someone who is heavier earlier in life then changes their body composition and thus their metabolic health, they are more likely to avoid the diseases of IR and diabetes, correct?

(Gabor Erdosi) #18

Body composition and metabolic health are often closely related, but not synonymous at all.

(Erin Macfarland ) #19

I guess I meant, if one is heavier earlier in life, then loses weight and improves metabolic risk factors, it seems like it would be the case that the risk of developing these diseases is decreased.

(Tom) #20

Some people look at this chart and see the tremendous growth in understanding of adipose phys, but when I look at it, I see that the diet-heart hypothesis was forced down our throats at a time when we knew darn near nothing about the adiposity and its metabolic effects (an oversimplified observation, but one I thought was worth pointing out).