Vitamin K, et al

vitamin-k

(Joey) #1

@daddyoh I hope you don’t mind my taking the liberty of creating a fresh topic to avoid bogging down the other thread with this sidebar …

Since you mention Vit K, I’d be interested in your thoughts about K1 vs K2, and more specifically, MK4 vs MK7 (two forms of K2, not K1).

What guidance has your cardiologist offered you in this area?

While on this topic, have you come across “Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox” by Kate Rheaume-Bleue? If so, I’d welcome hearing your take on her admonitions to make sure you get enough K2 (and the various ways to do so).


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #2

K as in potassium not Vit-K. I do eat fermented food a little for some Vit-K but don’t supplement. Dr. William Davis indicates that Vit-K supplementation might not be beneficial if I heard him correct. He does recommend more Mg and Yogurt but speciallcally - Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt because it populates the small intestines with lots of benefits.


(Joey) #3

Many thanks for sharing these links. I will either watch the video or just read the transcript version in its entirely. Looks like great stuff.

A hasty search through the transcript pdf - looking for “K2” - suggests that Dr David believes there’s ambiguity about whether trying to get more K2 into one’s system does indeed aid in the slowing (or perhaps even regression) of calcium deposits in the arteries.

Interestingly enough, he does state that it can’t hurt.

But it seem to be no RCT studies in humans yet to rely on. (And yeah, I’d read the Rotterdam study previously and fully agree with his assessment: it’s pretty much bunk given how the data was gathered. Basically useless.)

Regardless, it remains important to draw a distinction between K1 and K2 inasmuch as they are very different in terms of their function (K1 involved in clotting and K2 involved in calcium uptake into bones/teeth instead of into arteries). As such, referring to “Vitamin K” is, in effect, referring to two entirely separate vitamin types with vastly different functions.

Meanwhile, I’ve been making home fermented sauerkraut and absolutely loving it … slathered on sausage, corned beef, and my favorite, hot dogs. We may even be picking up some K2 (MK7?) along the way through those little lactobacillus buddies that I’ve now invited into our kitchen. :slight_smile:


(Eric - The patient needs to be patient!) #4

@SomeGuy You should read this that just came in about Dr. Davis

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/magnesium-water-aka-mg-bicarbonate/92742/2

@ctviggen

I’m staying with the Mg Water for now cause it can’t hurt but not sure about the yogurt.


(Cristian Lopez) #5

I may suggest using some quality ghee butter!
Here’s the nutritional breakdown of 1 tablespoon of ghee[*]:

  • 112 calories
  • 0g carbohydrate
  • 12.73g fat
  • 0g protein
  • 0g fiber
  • 393 IU Vitamin A (8% DV)
  • .36 mcg Vitamin E (2% DV)
  • 1.1 mcg Vitamin K (1% DV

Nothing high but atleast it can add to other sources of k


(Bob M) #6

You could try the yogurt. If you have a maker (as I do), it’s not hard to make at all.

People believe in this yogurt, see the posts from Fat Head (http://www.fathead-movie.com/), for instance. It’s just I tried it and did not find it beneficial. (Note: you can’t go to his site and find many dissenting opinions, as if you have a dissenting opinion, you get kicked off the site. So, you’ll have to try it and not rely on what you see there.)

I theorize this might be because people who eat higher carbs (Tom Naughton from Fat Head is not keto) and higher fiber might experience a benefit, whereas someone like myself (low carbs, low fiber) might not. Or maybe I just don’t experience a benefit for probiotics, considering I spent months trying them (and prebiotics), and got no good results. And these were different from the l-reuteri.

As for K2, take a look here:

Note that K1 and K2 are different, K1 = coagulation, K2 = calcium shuttling. I bought the supplements from that company recommended in the podcast…then got a zero CAC score. I took one pill from there and it made me feel strange, but a lot of vitamins (C, etc.) do that. I also think that if I currently have a zero CAC score, I’m doing something right. Would adding in K2 help? I don’t know.


(Joey) #7

@ctviggen To clarify, are you saying you “took one pill” after you’d gotten your zero CAC score and felt strange? Did you take them prior to that zero result and not feel strange? Am not quite getting a sense for your experience.

Also, like P Theut, did you have a non-negative CAC score previously and reverse calcification through the use of K2?