Vitamin C - survival from cooking

(Edith) #1

For all you biochemists out there, I have a vitamin C question: Does the vitamin C in a food survive the cooking process like in canning or the preserving process as in fruit preserves?

#2

I am no biochemist but already the temperature causes a very severe loss, light and passing time is serious too so I would consider the remaining amount insignificant.

#3

I can’t help you further due to post covid heart failure but I’m sure you’ll find the following helpful. Humans can make their own Vitamin C when specific circumstances are met but that’s for another topic.

https://www.google.com/search?q=vitamin+c+thermal+degradation

(Edith) #4

Thanks for the link.

I hope you get something figured out to help you with your post-Covid symptoms and/or that time will heal.

(Bob M) #5

Dang, that does not sound great. Good luck and keep us informed.

(Bunny) #6

Another one to add to the list:

Vitamin C is the most easily destroyed vitamin there is. It is destroyed by oxygen, heat (above 70 degrees) and it leaks out into the cooking water because it is a water-soluble vitamin** . …” “…Vitamin C dissolves in cooking water, therefore, serve the food with the cooking water if possible. …” …Ask a Dietician

Vegetables with the highest sources of vitamin C include:

  • Broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and cauliflower.
  • Green and red peppers.
  • Spinach, cabbage, turnip greens, and other leafy greens.
  • Sweet and white potatoes.
  • Tomatoes and tomato juice.
  • Winter squash. …More

Also this may be why carnivores don’t get scurvy:

Vitamin C

”…Vitamin C may limit degradation of natural folate coenzymes and supplemental folic acid in the stomach and thus improve folate bioavailability. A cross-over trial in nine healthy men found that oral co-administration of 5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid (343 μg) and vitamin C (289 mg or 974 mg) was associated with higher concentrations of serum folate compared to 5-methyltetrahydrofolic acid alone (8). Moreover, a recent study suggested that several genetic variations of folate metabolism might influence the effect of vitamin C on folate metabolism (9). …” …More

I would be very careful saying you get all the Vitamin C you need from meat or that you don’t need Vitamin C because you don’t eat carbs!

Ancient Humans and Eskimo get plenty of Vitamin C and are never deficient because they eat the blood, glandulars and organs raw as soon as the animal is excised, Vitamin C is especially high in the adrenals and parathyroid of animals.

This meat diet that modern carnivores practice is an IGF-1-high-methionine magical trip (raindeer antlers; extremely dangerous) I would NOT dare practice.

(Jane) #7

Sorry to hear you are so sick still. Are you in the hospital?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

The good news is that we don’t need vitamin C for its antioxidant properties when eating a well-formulated ketogenic diet. One of the ketone bodies, β-hydroxybutyrate, is not only a fuel, but a hormone with well-defined epigenetic effects. One of the reasons we need vitamin C on the standard American diet is that the high level of serum insulin activates a gene complex that shuts off the body’s endogenous defenses against oxidative stress. Β-hydroxybutyrate turns that complex off again, thus reactivating those defenses and eliminating the need for vitamin C.

This is consistent with the fact, well-known since before the discovery of vitamin C, that fresh meat has anti-scorbutic properties (i.e., it prevents scurvy). The problem with the diet of sailors in the Royal Navy back in those days, which made vitamin C necessary for them, was that past a certain time out of port, all there was to eat was preserved beef and ship’s biscuit. Hence the citrus fruit and the nickname “Limeys.”

(Bunny) #9

That’s only if your producing it endogenously from resistant starch in the gut, If your just eating it like from a grass fed stick of butter it will not do all those wonderful things your talking about and if your eating more than 3 oz of meat you will not be in ketosis. That is, if your fully digesting it, if not than you might make it to ketosis.

It (β-hydroxybutyrate) will get burned up for fuel and never makes it to the lower intestinal tract.

”…Acetoacetate and beta-hydroxybutyrate are the two ketone bodies used by the body for energy. Once they reach extrahepatic tissues, beta-hydroxybutyrate is converted to acetoacetate via the enzyme beta-hydroxybutyrate dehydrogenase, and acetoacetate is converted back to acetyl-CoA via the enzyme beta-ketoacyl-CoA transferase. Acetyl-CoA goes through the citric acid cycle, and after oxidative phosphorylation produces 22 ATP per molecule. Acetone does not convert back to acetyl-CoA, so it is either excreted through urine or exhaled. …” …More

Cortisol Demand Driven Gluconeogenesis & Vitamin C Deficiencies:

[1] ”…The researchers believe that vitamin C should be considered an essential part of stress management. Earlier studies showed that vitamin C abolished secretion of cortisol in animals that had been subjected to repeated stress. Cortisol is a hormone released by the adrenal glands in response to stress. …” …More

[2] “…The study showed that vitamin C reduced the levels of stress hormones in the blood-and also reduced other typical indicators of physical and emotional stress, such as loss in body weight, enlargement of the adrenal glands, and reduction in the size of the thymus gland and the spleen, according to Campbell. …” …More

[3] “…Additional evidence supports the concept of an inverse correlation between vitamin C and cortisol levels. Guinea pigs that are made deficient in vitamin C hyper-secrete cortisol [4]. Supplementation of ascorbic acid in humans and animal models is associated with a decreased cortisol response after a psychological or physical stressor [5]. High serum levels of cortisol in patients with sepsis are associated with a poor prognosis. Traditionally, this association has been explained on the assumption that higher cortisol responses are due to a more intense physiological stress and a higher severity of illness. However, the inverse relationship of cortisol levels with vitamin C status would suggest an alternative hypothesis, namely, that high levels of cortisol and the associated poorer outcomes of patients are a function of vitamin C deficiency. …” …More

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

This is bonkers. Ketone bodies, being partial metabolites of fatty acids, are not made from carbohydrates, not even from resistant starch.

(Bunny) #11

“…Butyrate, a four-carbon short-chain fatty acid, is produced through microbial fermentation of dietary fibers in the lower intestinal tract. Endogenous butyrate production, delivery, and absorption by undigested dietary carbohydrates, specifically resistant starch …“ …More

Endogenous butyrate (the most used ketone by our body) is in-fact made from resistant starch, the science is very very clear on that (maybe hundreds of white papers and research) but on a much deeper level what is the relationships between cortisol, butyrate and vitamin C, is it to tame the wild beast (cortisol), is that what civilized the human animal including polyphenols from plants to develop more neurological connections (neurogenesis & neuroplasticity)?

If ancient anthropoids did in fact only eat meat, it was the plant matter that gave them intelligence?

I have done the potato diet and you do in-fact go into ketosis (no dietary fat required) no, if ands or buts the ketone switch gets turned on because the bile switch gets turned off and re-directs glucose to skeletal muscle as carolIT pointed out a while back.

#12

from Empirica: The bottom line is that even on a diet of just muscle meat, you should expect to get enough vitamin C. The vitamin C present in meat, along with the vitamin C sparing effect of low carb diets is enough to prevent scurvy, even without going out of your way to eat liver or other organs. Save those for pleasure!

I showed that the RDA for vitamin C is grossly inflated, particularly on a ketogenic diet. The amount of vitamin C that prevents scurvy, even in carb-eaters, is at most a mere 10 mg a day, and there is little support for taking extra, unless your system is overloaded with glucose.

-------- —your posts spew such garbage.

Total guess and bloated useless assumptions. All the time regarding ZC. 10-20-25+ year zero carb veterans are thriving on plan and have had blood tests and more showing no troubles with C. If you actually would read any real zero carb info out there you would actually learn something.

I could post a ton of links more but it ain’t worth my time cause ya ain’t gonna read this one anyway.

And you debate Paul over and over and he even said your stuff is bonkers you post, so obviously you will come back and post like 10 links saying I am off in my info posted but I won’t be reading not one of them, so don’t bother. And I won’t be replying again to the useless bashing and slinging guesses at the zc plan like you do. I said my peace.

#13

Couldn’t agree more with you on alot of stuff being posted is loaded with stuff being bonkers LOL

(Elizabeth ) #14
(Elizabeth ) #15

here’s some real published science from a clinic that uses an all meat diet to heal desperately sick people cancers etc. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298181334_Vitamin_C_and_Disease_Insights_from_the_Evolutionary_Perspective

(Elizabeth ) #16
(Bunny) #17

Like wise———

Just enough? You maybe cooking that 10mg out of your muscle meat so your relying on folate to compensate for lack of Vitamin C and additionally damaging the epithelium of the veins and arteries? Your going to get glucose (a carb) from the catabolism of body parts (nitrogen balance) and more so if your are fasting (which may be a good idea if you want to turn off the IGF-1 switch for a while) or that meat muscle meat your eating via cortisol—-gluconeogenesis further stripping your glycocalyx shield on the radial arterial walls? Not to mention skin that tears and bruises easily. That’s just a small fraction of the disadvantages of not supplementing with Vitamins, polyphenols especially Vitamin C.

Like wise———

…your already over-loading it with glucose and insulin when you over-eat animal protein, you might be in ketosis one day and not the next? Why not just eat carbs, your doing the same thing and playing with IGF-1 as if you were eating refined carbohydrates?

Vegans have the same problem; high folate will make their B-12 blood serum levels look normal and could be causing serious brain damage.

I prefer a balanced diet…lol

(Elizabeth ) #18

You already have no credibility because you’re not even carnivore and you’re posting in carnivore threads. Stick to your own lane. Your epidemiology and arrogance is breathtaking.

(Bunny) #19

…is not a ketogenic diet…period!

I can see you mimic your gurus when you use the term “epidemiology” which is used to give an idea of the whole, that does not tell us the root cause or effect.

My points are based on sound science not just “epidemiology” that is not how I reach any sound or logical conclusions.

I would be careful about what I senselessly disregard and regard, that’s a dangerous way to live and think?

(Elizabeth ) #20

Of course it is It’s the absence of carbs that causes ketosis. Even if you need therapeutic levels you can easily do that with a very high fat PKD carnivore way of eating