Vitamin C extended - Carb/Vitamin C ratio to prevent scurvy? Natural vs synthetic Vitamin C?

#1

Please keep it civil.

Since we know that Vitamin C and glucose compete for absorption via the GLUT transporters. What do you guys think is the perfect ratio to prevent scurvy if someone is eating grains?

Has anyone else noticed a difference between taking natural vs synthetic vitamin C supplements?

Does anyone else here have the ability to taste Vitamin C?

(Jack Bennett) #2

I have no idea about the first question.

I’ve never noticed a difference between natural and synthetic vitamin C. It’s hard for me to say whether supplementation makes much difference though.

I can definitely taste vitamin C in water or other liquid in large quantities. That applies more to the acid form (ascorbic acid) rather than the salt form (sodium or calcium ascorbate).

(Edith) #3

When I used to take supplemental vitamin c, if I took too much, I would get the runs along with some other symptoms I won’t post. That didn’t happen when I ate lots of vitamin c containing foods.

(Jack Bennett) #4

The original vitamin C docs from the mid-20th century looked at “bowel tolerance” as a gauge for the medicinal effect of the vitamin. That is, if you get diarrhea, you took too much and should back off. The symptom indicates that your body isn’t using the vitamin.

Also, the dosages they typically recommended would be divided into smaller doses administered hourly because vitamin C clears out from the body so rapidly. You get more stable blood levels with smaller, regular doses (or IV) than from one big dose.

(Karen) #5

A bit off topic but I read an article today about vitamin C and helping to preserve muscle mass In aging adults. Never heard that before

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

@Keto6468 Haven’t heard that either. Do you have a link to the article? It might be worth looking into.

@ajbennett It certainly makes sense that you don’t absorb what you excrete, lol!

I don’t know if this applies to vitamin C specifically, but I’ve read a couple of articles stating that a lot of nutrients aren’t nearly as bio-available when taken in pill form as when we get them naturally in food. Partly this is because the form of the vitamin or mineral in the pill is what’s easiest to manufacture, not necessarily what’s best to absorb, but partly it seems there are other substances in food that help with absorption. At least, this is what I’ve read.

(Jack Bennett) #7

Yeah, supplement marketers definitely play to this issue with the more expensive vitamin C tablets and supplements - e.g. claiming that you need “bioflavonoids” or other phytochemicals to properly absorb enough vitamin C.

My sense is that basic ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate is cheap enough. Even if it’s not as well absorbed, maybe you can take 2g rather than 1g and still come out ahead compared to some kind of “proprietary formulation”. (Maybe that’s just the chemist in me talking.)

I watched a movie called Vitamania a few months back and the filmmakers tried to tour a giant factory in Scotland where they manufacture some large fraction of the world’s artificial vitamin C. (They were unsuccessful.)

I kind of go back and forth on whether megadoses of vitamin C are useful or not. In the case of (e.g.) a severe cold or flu, there’s certainly no harm in taking a couple of grams dissolved in water every hour. Does it actually make a profound difference? Hard to say for sure.

Of course, with these kind of dosages, we’re talking about using the vitamin as a medicine/drug. Actual bodily needs to prevent acute deficiency are more in the range of 10-50 mg per day. (The carnivore community will talk your ear off about it, and how you can get vitamin C in fresh meat, because they have been traumatized by all the people asking them “but what about scurvy?” over the years)

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

There is also evidence to show that if we are eating a ketogenic diet, we may not need exogenous anti-oxidants at all.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #9

I like what Dr. Geogia Ede has to say about exogenous anti-oxidants…

Many research studies show that plant antioxidants are poorly absorbed by our bodies, changed by our bodies into completely different compounds, or rapidly eliminated:

Do We Need Fruit Antioxidants?

(Edith) #10

Vitamin C supplementation can cause an increase in urinary calcium oxalate. If someone is susceptible to kidney stones or other oxalate trouble, ingesting high does of vitamin c is not a good thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472830/

https://www.kidney-international.org/article/S0085-2538(15)48976-8/fulltext

#11

The first question was for @VirginiaEdie. Regarding her father who eats rice pudding and may have or is developing scurvy. There is probably a minimum dose required of Vitamin C when eating a high carb grain diet.

This is true and this is why some natural supplements contain Aloe Vera to drastically increase absorption of Vitamins. Desert Harvest being one company.

I would love to read this. Link?

Synthetic vitamin C causes kidney stones because when they make synthetic supplements… the toxic precursors aren’t always 100% converted into the active Vitamin. I’m pretty sure these precursors are obtained from petroleum, coal tar, etc… and are most likely contaminated.

Naturelo Vitamin C comes from oranges and acerola extract if you’re looking for a safe supplement for your father. I’ve taken it and noticed benefits, such as the ability to see infrared.
-https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja01287a005

(Todd Allen) #12

The precursor for vitamin C is glucose.

#13

And the precursors for the tablet fillers (carrier)?

#14

Probably want close to 80mg per day if eating glucose forming foods (competitor). 300 to 1000mg per day if blood tests show low Vitamin C (in the white blood cells) to replenish.

Some people questioning bioavailability of Vitamin C from plant sources. Might have missed the historical part about curing scurvy in 19th C sailors. But, maybe, they got limes and cod?

(Bob M) #15

Not really a link, but if you search for “antioxidant” at

You’'ll find Petro D. doesn’t like them. Anything Petro D. doesn’t like, I’m hesitant to try.

(Karen) #16

Not sure how many other articles they are but here is one

(Edith) #17

The problem (which is why I started the original thread in Chat) is my 83 year old dad is pretty much in the throes of OCD and his neuroses revolve around his diet and digestive tract. As a result , he has limited his diet to a very crap diet, all beige, very little protein, no fruit or vegetables except canned peaches, very little protein, and lots, I mean lots, of rice pudding.

I’m hoping to find SOMEthing I can get him to eat that will bring up vitamin c levels.

I took him to the doctor on Monday and expressed my concerns, particularly about scurvy.
(I gave the doctor a letter pre-appointment explaining my concerns and where my dad is mentally) The doc, who I was not very impressed with, said scurvy was not possible eating processed food these days since many foods are fortified. :thinking: I chose not to make a stink.

The doc did order a complete blood panel, but not sure what that will show where nutrient deficiency is concerned.

Sigh. It’s a mess.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

Here is one of the seminal articles, by Verdin et al.

(Bob M) #19

Yeah, that doctor does not elicit a good feeling.

Any way to get something in his rice pudding? More protein (via powders), vitamin c via some type of pill form, etc.? Say you start with this recipe:

Instead of all the milk, maybe cream and unflavored or maybe vanilla flavored whey protein? Or milk + whey protein?

Not sure how to get vitamin C in there. Maybe this, which provides a large amount of C for 1/6th a teaspoon:

(Todd Allen) #20

I don’t know anything about that. I get bulk powders of ascorbic acid and ascorbyl palmitate both of which are useful in the kitchen. It’s also available as ascorbate salts of sodium, calcium and magnesium which I’d expect are somewhat interchangeable with the citrate salts I also use in food.