Visceral/fat loss around the middle. Questions from an apple

#1

I think this falls into progress (or lack of in my case).

I was wondering if anyone would care to share their experiences about fat loss around the middle / visceral fat loss.

I’m definitely losing weight, I’m in ketosis according to my bloods, I’m fitting clothes I haven’t fit into for about 3 years, it’s all good. But the middle bit does not seem to be budging very much at all according to the tape measure.

I guess I am a pretty common T2D body shape (if there is such a thing). I can actually look not that overweight with the right clothes. lol. (But I know the truth.)

I guess it would be the last to go, but I have these awesome legs, and a pudgy middle. Yes, I am an apple.

I am willing to be patient, but it’d be good to hear some people’s experiences with this.

#2

Yeah, we generally don’t have spot control for weight loss. But, just about every square inch of the body’s surface gets affected at some time during the weight loss journey. The good news is that you get to celebrate each asset that you gain - and it sounds like you’ve got some great looking legs!

How long have you been on the keto journey?

#3

hah. I may have overstated my awesome legs, I’m sure on a world scale, they are delightfully average. I just decided I might as well give my body some love. They’re strong, they keep me going and they are doing okay.

My goal is 95% about my health, not about looks. Although feeling good about the way I look would be a bonus. I know that the stuff around my middle is the real battle, and I want it gone! And I want normal blood sugars. And a normal liver and pancreas. I don’t know that anything is wrong with liver and pancreas but I know they’ll be a lot healthier without the extra fat cramping their style.

I tried LCHF about four years ago, but my doctor… hmm… She is lovely, but she basically scared/guilted me into stopping it. Even though my bloods were good at that time, she gave me a talk about carbs, pointed out my cholesterol level had risen, and put me on statins and looked very perturbed about it all. All in all, it confused me. I knew she had my best interests at heart. I was no expert and she was, so I felt really guilty about going against the grain (literally).

Post that, I still didn’t each much bread or sugar, but I had rice and pasta etc. but last year I just started eating bread again and I couldn’t stop, so by January this year I was a lot sicker. I started LCHF in mid Feb and keto-ing in late Feb and here I am.

It’s working really well. I’m not where I want to be but I’m going in the right direction. This got long. Sorry.

#4

Yikes! Are you still on statins?

Good to know you are back on keto. It is sad that the med industry knocks us off course, but you need to give yourself a lot of kudos for taking control of your health and looking at data, and not just listening to “expert” opinions.

The mid zone is visceral fat, and you are definitely right in wanting to see that go down, from a health perspective. Fat surrounding the organs will cause damage in the long run. Your decision to stay away from bread and other carby stuff, and go into keto will help.

As you get deeper into the keto way of eating regimen, and you are willing to attempt it, you may want to start looking at therapeutic fasting options, like starting with intermittent fasting. The rate of autophagy (the body removing old and unwanted cells) moves at a faster pace, and my guess is that this will ramp up your progress.

However, for now, you have embarked on keto. And this is a good time to get the hang of it and get the “new” way of eating hammered down.

I hope you stay in touch with the progress of your journey.

#5

No. Actually I came out of that appointment, got the script filled and then got home and realised that I didn’t know what they were for, so decided not to take them. It was a bit of an overwhelming meeting, I think I stopped listening. I thought I had been doing so well and there was so much concern from her.
It’s only recently while I’ve been learning about statins that I have realised that I dodged a bullet there. Thankfully, cluelessness and an aversion to medications was a good thing in this instance. I found the packet on my dresser the other day (way out of date) and was very happy to throw them in the bin. I’m a lot stronger in myself now, I’ve read a lot more of the science (understood about 55% of it) and I’m not getting dissuaded again.

I’ve been doing the Zornfast and am thinking of extending it out to a week. I’m coping okay but I’ll see how I go. I just want to give my organs a complete rest. Thanks for the support.

#6

You are one smart gal, Audrey! You are saving your life, one smart decision after the other!

#7

I actually feel hopeful about my health now, which I haven’t felt in such a long time.

#8

It’s my understanding the visceral fat is the first to get deposited and the last to go.

I saw that in myself when I went from 320 lbs to 160 lbs - the visceral fat was the last to go and what I have left around the middle is clearly a thin layer of subcutaneous fat instead of the internal visceral variety.

(Barbara Greenwood) #9

Interesting… I thought it was the opposite based on what I’ve read, but wouldn’t you know it, I couldn’t find any of the places where I’ve seen that when I went to look. Maybe not everyone responds in the same way.

I did however find this one, which says that a lower carb intake results in a greater proportion of visceral fat loss that the same number of calories with a higher amount of carbs. Although low carb in this case if 40% of 1000 cals, or 100g carbs per day (too much for keto).

(Barbara Greenwood) #10

I’m a pear, not an apple. I seem to lose weight first around the waist and midriff, so I move in the direction of an hourglass figure, although with a lingering “apron” I would love to get rid of.

(eat more) #11

maybe you are thinking of the fat “marbling” in muscles/organs?

i’ve heard/read that this fat is the first to go and why some ppl complain that they actually gain weight when first starting weight loss …because the muscles/organs are releasing energy (fat) in surplus…

i’ve also heard that whatever your “problem area” is the first to gain and last to lose
i’ve also heard that we gain from the inside out (torso to limbs) and lose from outside in (limbs to torso)…altho my pear shaped behind disagrees with that

i think most ppl comment on face gains when others lose weight …my face doesn’t wear pants so it isn’t that important to me LOL

i have nothing to back any of this up and i’m just rambling with possible wive’s tales :expressionless:

#12

That’s not the case with some people, though. I happen to be one of those that can have a very small waist but still carry more weight in other parts. I’m thankful for this, as I think it is a protective mechanism.

#13

Thanks for your responses.

I guess this a reminder for me (I seem to need them regularly) that there is no typical body type or journey and we all need to do it our own way.

@BillJay What an impressive change. Awesome.

I think this may be my thing. Hopefully in a few months time it will be proven true for me.

I loved your whole comment, so please ramble away as much as you like!
“my face doesn’t wear pants” LOL.

Thanks for the article @Barbara_Greenwood

(Tom) #14

I also happen to be an Apple. Fairly defined arms and legs, with the majority of my weight in abdominal area. In my experience, the subcutaneous abdominal fat has been the last to go, but the visceral abdominal fat (which is currently regarded as the one with bigger detrimental effects) was the first to go.
You might consider an experiment, especially since you’re fasting:
Pick a time, like 16 or 24 hours fasting, when your intestines are pretty much cleared out. Grab your camera or your camera phone. Point said camera at the bed or couch or whatever you can lay down on comfortably. Set the timer, go lay down, but pull your shirt up (or ideally, just wear a sports bra and shorts). Get a couple of pics from each side. Hang onto them and repeat weekly or monthly (or whenever you’re feeling skinny). Over time, see how the horizon of the abdomen sinks lower and lower to and then below the level of your ribs.

(ideally same time of day, same lighting, same time of the month relative to shark week, etc, etc)

Congratulations on all your progress thus far, and progress to come!

Edit: I guess you could say that all that time spent contemplating my navel has finally come in handy! :smile:

(Jacquie) #15

Reading Tom’s response reminded that Michael Eades described a method for measuring sagittal abdominal (visceral) fat that might be useful for some folks…or not. :slight_smile:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=S3jEebNMNAMC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=measuring+sagittal+abdominal+diameter+eades&source=bl&ots=chHaeGKhWg&sig=YqPKeCnHaznAeRkLNUtN--2vSmY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjktZzfob3TAhUF4SYKHZQMBIcQ6AEITTAI#v=onepage&q=measuring%20sagittal%20abdominal%20diameter%20eades&f=false

(Duncan Kerridge) #16

The visceral fat was the first to go for me, one of the first significant signs of loss that I saw (felt actually) was that a small hollow was developing under the bottom rib instead of the usual shelf sticking out. I actually had a WTF moment and wondered what this strange lump was until I realised that’s what the bottom of the ribcage felt like. I miss the shelf sometimes, it was handy for balancing my carb-laden plates on.

(Roxanne) #17

YES! I actually asked my husband about this strange lump I felt there about a month ago. I was all worried and he said it’s a piece of cartilage called the xiphoid process. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that before. Gives me hope that one day I’ll actually have collar bones, too!

#18

I just had to go and do a bit of a refresher to make sure I really understood the difference between visceral and subcutaneous fat. I was on the right track, thankfully.

I’m doing measurements and weight and bloods. I don’t want to measure anything else now. If I’m losing, it will have to come off there eventually, surely.

Not sure if I have the courage (or the competence) to photograph myself @acrunchyfrog. But I am a very experienced naval gazer too, so agreed, that should count for something! :grin:

Hopefully I will have some sort of victory to report at some time. Looking forward to hollows under my ribs, and nicely defined collarbones, in the not so distant future.

(John Cotter) #19

I had this same moment last week!

(Barbara Greenwood) #20

Even visceral fat I think can be subdivided into fat around the internal organs (omental fat) and fat within them (ectopic fat), especially the liver and pancreas. Get the fat out of your liver and pancreas, and T2D pretty much goes away.

I think. Someone correct me if you know better.