My body does find it stressful but strangely I do not! Most days I have nothing but coffee before 5, often because I forget. I have no explanation but there are times when I have to start eating due to a family event or business dinner and I almost regret ending the fast on Day 3-5 (other times I am thrilled). Will be getting my shots soon and going back to the gym and fasting are at the top of my list.
Very Concerning Article Claiming Keto Diet Causing Afib in Rats and Humans
Saphire
#42
Best bread other than the real thing and pretty easy to make https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/the-keto-bread
VirginiaEdie
(Edith)
#43
No one realizes that humans lived without these things for most of our existence. They are the truly abnormal foods.
Corals
#44
Not even that. It is possible to make low carb donuts for a treat, if one is really donut-distressed.
Iām one who loves this WOE because of how wonderful the food is. Everything tastes better with butter!
Corals
#45
Thank you for sharing. It made me research about it, because Iāve been feeling weak and wondering if itās depression, or something heart related.
Sara_Smiles001
(Sara Smiles001)
#46
There is however a lot of science coming out about the link between keto diet and long term gut health. I did Atkins through out my entire 20s. Went off for a year and was diagnosed with celiac disease. Obviously I had the gene or I couldnāt have gotten adult onset celiac. However, they know adult onset is set off by an extreme change in gut bacteria. I am currently back on keto and super nervous about some of the effects Iām seeingā¦ severe dehydration, extremely dark urine. Maybe because I have digestive issues keto is too hard on my body now? Iām sticking with it to see if things get better but Iāve always wondered if the extreme dieting caused the initial upset in my gut bacteria. Iām sure Iāll never know. 
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#47
Think of it this way. When eating SAD the metabolism has to deal with wide swings of glucose, insulin and a number of other hormones. And it has to do so hour by hour all day every day. The higher the carb intake the moreso. This means a lot of less serious stuff/problems get overlooked or covered up until they get critical. Some people can eat SAD for decades before the pancreas or the liver or the heart or the āwhateverā finally breaks down and the underlying disease canāt be overlooked any longer.
So yes, indeed, keto changes matters greatly! For the better. Keto is a metabolic normalization process that uncovers whatever has been swept under the rug for years or decades while oneās metabolism coped with high carb intake and its consequences. If one has a lot of damage, then things can get dicey for awhile. But the good news is, without the overload of carbs and the ongoing necessity to deal with it, the metabolism can start repairing the damage it caused.
Please cite some so we can check it out. Thanks.
OldDog
(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.)
#48
Iām sure you are aware of correlation vs causation.
Since dehydration and dark urine are not side effects of a low or even zero carb diet, then there is something else going on.
One of the things I would be concerned about if my urine was dark, would be blood in my urineā¦
Low carb eating is not one of the causes of dehydration.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#49
Dr. Phinney mentions a couple of studies showing that Ī²-hydroxybutyrate is just as good for the intestine as the butyrate produced by gut bacteria, possibly even better. Unfortunately, I did not write down the citations.
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#50
Thereās this:
ā¦ To be specific, we are not challenging fiberās important role in colon healthāalong with an optimized microbiomeāin the context of a diet whose combined total of carbohydrate and protein is high enough to suppress nutritional ketosis. However, cultural, historical, and now strong biochemical evidence indicates that many of the benefits of fiber fermentation in the colon can be replaced by the normal physiological production of BOHB by the liver during a well-formulated ketogenic diet.
[ā¦]Short-Chain Fatty Acids
Three SCFAsāacetate, propionate and butyrateāare produced in the intestinal lumen by bacterial fermentation of dietary fiber. SCFAs serve as energy substrates for the gut and perform other beneficial actions for gut and overall health. Butyrate is the most extensively-researched of the SCFAs and is implicated in many of the health-promoting effects associated with colonic fermentation of fiber. The SCFA butyrate also has some pretty potent anti-inflammatory properties that enhance the intestinal barrier, mucosal immune functionā“ and cellular energy metabolismāµ.
One of these powerful functions of butyrate is its action as a histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitorā¶. HDACs are enzymes that regulate specific genes (i.e., epigenetic regulation) of target cells, and inhibition of them by butyrate can help reduce unwanted cell growth and oxidative stress. And, for those of you familiar with our prior post about BOHB, you will recall that BOHB is also an HDAC inhibitorā·. Both butyrate and BOHB bind to the same cell surface receptor in the colon, which means they can have similar tumor suppressing effects upon binding. This is likely one of the underlying mechanisms by which fiber intake is understood to contribute to a reduction in the incidence of colon cancer.
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#51
If anything, keto helps with gut health. At least it did for me. Itās only when I eat certain plants that I get irritable bowel syndrome or the like, which I had terribly for a while. So, I avoid those plants.
Note I said āplantsā not āmeatā.
Saphire
#52
Celiac can be silent. One of my kids was short and we took them to a growth specialist at 12 We have lots of short people in our family so we assumed it was hereditary. The doctor ordered a bunch of tests and on the last page we found Celiac! The kid had no prior problems and for their last gluten meal we did mac and cheese, again no problems. Now I have since read postings that say that once you are gluten free even if you could tolerate gluten before, you no longer can but it does not mean there is not damage happening, in a weird way I think the diet did you a favor (says the mom of a glutne free teenager who herself does not do well with wheat). Turned out my kid had the HLA 8 and HLA 2! One of my other kids has chosen to be GF because feels better that way
FrankoBear
#53
Interesting points Sara and well worth heeding.
Dietary changes impact gut flora. There are plenty of anecdotes in these forums of changed food tolerances with changes in food.
An umbrella story is that people start keto and stick with it for a few months feeling the benefits. Then they hit an event, or overwhelming craving, or a reminiscence where they eat some food they once ālovedā, and they feel terrible in the aftermath. They guess they can no longer tolerate that food. Which may be true. But the reaction may not be an intrinsic immune system response, which is understood to be the inflammation associated with eating a poorly tolerated food. The reaction may be, as you say, the sudden food change and its effect on the gut flora. That can occur with or without an immune response. If we have a mass bacterial die off, then bits of exploded bacteria and bacterial linings (lipopolysaccharides) can create all sorts of bowel upset.
And this:
Goldengirl52
(Denise)
#54
I hope you are still watching this one @CFLBob because I have the same thing happening but the cardio that ordered those tests left town. No doctors remain in this area long, or they just visit on occasion. Not all the same things happening I should say. Only some afib, and the doc ordered the echo thing and the nuclear stress thing. I said heck with it and tried some natural remedies (known to help with afib). Now I am still having afib, and it seems stress related so called the replacement cardio and go next tuesday to see him 2 hours away, oh joy 
What I wanted to ask about is how bad is the echo test? I think I might panic having a tube in my throat clear into my stomach. Maybe they can sedate me because I just know I need to be calm for that. I donāt know about the stress test, but one of the tests is supposed be about 4 hours, omg!! 
CFLBob
(Central Florida Bob )
#55
Just to be clear, the āechoā test - is that an echocardiogram? Thatās very easy test. You lie on a padded bed and the technician (? I think sheās a tech, not a nurse) holds a plastic sender/receiver against your chest. She moves it around watches the images as sheās scanning you. I think the most I did was small changes in position, like maybe let her get at my left side a little bit. Very low stress, zero pain. I donāt recall even having to get my arms in weird positions.
Let me know if there are any other questions.
Goldengirl52
(Denise)
#56
Yes Bob itās echocardiogram and nuclear stress test I had googled or I mean searched here on ketogenic forums for echocardiogram and found your post so I really wanted to talk to you about it because I didnāt no if I could handle some kind of hose stuck down my throat into my stomach so I think youāre saying that the echo cardiogram is not done that way and how is the nuclear stress test done is that a 4-Hour thing
CFLBob
(Central Florida Bob )
#57
Neither sticks the hose down your throat (and youāre asleep through that, thank God).
My nuclear stress test was yesterday. It was 100% āhurry up and wait.ā Of the four hours, thereās probably not even half an hour of actual testing.
First get IV set up and the radioactive die injected. 15 minutes?
Wait an hour. Drink a pint of water.
Go in for the first round of imaging.
Seven minutes later, do the treadmill test. Maybe 20-25 minutes all put together.
Wait an hour. Drink a pint of water.
Go in for the second round of imaging.
Five minutes later, done for the day. Go to checkout. Have a nice day.
Iāll have my results Tuesday.
If they have reason to think you canāt do the treadmill - arthritis or something - they give you a shot of adrenaline and youāll be lying down for the test. My doc had me walk on the treadmill until I got to the top of my aerobic range (85% of 220 minus your age - 129 for me) and then continue walking at that pulse for 60 seconds. That makes most (all?) people short of breath but that lasts for about a minute.
Goldengirl52
(Denise)
#58
I totally appreciate your answer reply Bob because that just sounds like some Hitlerās experience experiments and you know what I think Iāll just pass Iāll do the two tests that were ordered I mean the one test Iām not doing that nuclear BS Iām telling you these scientists doctors are mad just freaking mad scientists Iām not going to let them do that to me I just rather wait until Iām so sick I canāt tell anybody what to do or not to do and Iām not that sick Iād rather just take care of things the best I can on my own thatās really sick when I think about it really sick
CFLBob
(Central Florida Bob )
#59
Something I didnāt mention is that youāre supposed to fast for six hours before the test. Since my appointment was at 8AM, they said, ānothing to eat after 2AMā which made me say, āwho eats between 2 and 8 in the morning?ā Night shift workers? Since Iām used to doing 40-ish hour fasts at a momentās notice, not eating in the morning would be completely unnoticeable except for no coffee. Water was OK and helps make getting a vein stuck easier.
For the imaging tests, the tech asked me to drink about half a cup of seltzer water, and offered me a choice of like five flavors, all of which sounded to probably be full of sugar. I asked if she had plain seltzer water, and she said no. When I said I avoid sugar she said she one that wasnāt sweet and it didnāt really taste sweet. As all of us keto people have learned, sometimes you just have to put up with it.
Why seltzer water in the first place? She said something about it puffing up my guts making the pictures easier to read. Oh Kay ā¦
Something interesting came up, though. The cardiologist told me his formula shows that because of Afib, I have a 2% chance of getting a stroke in the next year. Then he said 1% comes from being between 65 and 75 and 1% comes from being a dude. So where does the Afib enter into that? My inner statistics nerd says thatās probably bull crap. Then he said the office is getting a machine that can do CAC testing so I may be getting one of those tests next year - I think he said the machine was set to be delivered in March.
Saphire
#60
One of my kids had a regular stress test (I forget why but nothing serious). It was really very easy, he ran on a treadmill for a few minutes and they took some measurements. Really a no big deal test
It was in the Cardiologistās office. He also had a halter test where he worse something for 24 hours and it was also no big deal and there was nothing wrong with him anyway. The test where they stick a tube down your throat is an endoscopy and as far as I know it is for stomach problems not heart but perhaps I simply have not heard about it. For those you are fully sedated for the 15 minutes it takes.