Vegetable oil


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #21

That, I haven’t heard before. I know that ω-6 fatty acids are inflammatory when consumed in excessive quantity, and I would have thought that the only way ω-3 fatty acids could be considered anti-inflammatory is that eaters on the standard American diet have to cut way back on ω-6 in order to stand a chance of getting enough ω-3 to make any kind of difference. They compete for the same receptors, so they have to be eaten in equal quantity to get them in the right proportions, and there is no way to get enough ω-3 to equal the amount of ω-6 contained in the typical amount of vegetable oil Americans consume.

I am also wary about claims involving longevity, since (a) the studies have to be done on animal models and the findings may well not transfer to human beings, and (b) we are nowhere near teasing out the full effects of various chemicals and processes. A few years ago, various researchers were saying to be wary of activating mTOR, because it might inhibit longevity, and now the word is that we need mTOR to be activated in order for other healthful processes to function properly. It gets confusing!


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #22

It’s likely that you would, yes. Why not cook the greens in butter or lard, instead?


#23

Are we sure lard is all that good? Pork seems very high in omega 6. Maybe if we get the right heritage breed fed the right feed.


(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #24
Cooking fat % of fat is saturated % is monounsaturated % is polyunsaturated
Butter 70.0 26.0 3.8
Tallow 52.1 43.7 4.2
Olive oil 14.2 75.0 10.8
Lard 41.0 47.2 11.7
Soybean oil 15.8 23.4 60.9

The figures are taken from the USDA Food Composition Database. Note: these numbers are percentages of total fat, but since these products are almost entirely fat in any case, these percentages pretty well match the values in grams per 100 g of product (except for butter, which contains a fair amount of water).

Olive oil and lard have pretty much the same percentage of polyunsaturated fat, which is almost entirely 18:2 in both cases. The bulk of lard is composed pretty equally of saturated and unsaturated fats, whereas olive oil is overwhelmingly monounsaturated.


#25

Thanks, that is a nice cheatsheet. Now if only people could decide what is actually healthy! Maybe good old Kerrygold…


#26

I will throw out the answer to it all: all processed plant oils are evil. :skull_and_crossbones:

ok, onto the next issue :clown_face:


(Bob M) #27

Depends on who you ask. Petro D. over at hyperlipid makes an argument that fish oil is bad, as it fits his theory that PUFAs cause fat cells to become insulin sensitive.

On the other hand, the PUFAs in fish oil can be anti-inflammatory, supposedly. I still eat some fish, and don’t mind it when I do.

As for MUFAs, most (almost all) meat is mainly MUFA. Even something like lard (rendered pig fat) is mainly MUFA, of the exact same fatty acid found in Olive Oil. (Let’s ignore that we don’t really know what’s in pig fat, as it’s reliant on what the pigs eat, which we don’t know.)

Personally, I think it’s a matter of amount. We have become so overwhelmed with PUFAs that adding a small amount on top of what we already have in our fat cells is probably bad. I theorize we are “saturated fat deficient”, so eating more MUFAs or PUFAs is probably not a great idea.

But if you’re reducing PUFAs by not eating seed oils, eating more ruminant meat (beef, lamb, goat,…), how much does eating some chicken or pork or olive oil matter? I really don’t know.

We had a party for my daughter, and I made this:

I modify it a bit by adding more red wine, adding 1-2 anchovies, and mixing with a hand mixer. I also use good olive oil.

I made more of the recipe and had some on my meat lunch (beef heart, suet and olives this week). It was great!

I had avoided making this, thinking I should avoid MUFAs, but on the other hand, that also makes the diet more limiting.

I guess it’s a balance between trying to limit MUFAs and particularly PUFAs, while still eating things like fish, coconut (Petro D. is also against this), saturated fat (via cacao or dairy if you can handle, and even suet). I personally have to eat chicken and pork at times, because these tend to be easy to cook. My wife, for instance, takes chicken thighs (boneless, skinless), wraps them in bacon, throws some spices on them, bakes them. Delicious. And I make fried chicken, which I always make using dark meat. You can’t really find a substitute for that.


#28

It sounds like we are trying to eat similarly. I’ve decided for now that fish oil and olive oil are good along with coconut oil and avocado oil. For butter I try to get grassfed. I think beef etc is probably better grass fed.

I’m lucky that I still have a freezer full of venison from a couple deer that were eating their ancestral diets until they walked by my treestand last fall. But deer is extremely lean. Like 98% or more lean probably, so I have to add some exogenous fats.

It is amazing how much seed oil I must have gotten in the past through processed foods and even things I thought were reasonably healthy - especially salads with store bought dressing.

To be nice my wife and daughter made a Betty Crocker Keto Brownie mix that they were excited that me and my gluten-free mother and law could eat. I normally never eat that kind of fake keto stuff. But I tried it. It was okay. I realized how oily it was and then saw that the instructions had a whole cup full of oil for a little pan and of course they used “vegetable oil”. Kind of grossed me out.


(Jackie ) #29

Hi……I resemble that remark! I’m French. When I was there in 2019, I learned a lot about their eating habits. Number 1…a croissant with butter is considered a light breakfast and quite normal. Remember that their baking flours are not infused with crap like they are here in the US. They also do not add gluten to their baked items, and one goes to their local patisserie daily to purchase fresh baked goods.
Number 2…snacking is unheard of there. They eat MEALS. The meals consist of real whole foods….
Number 3……dairy (milk) is not over used like it is here. There is none in the refrigerated section of the market. It’s available in vacuum sealed 6 packs for one to keep in their cabinet. Cream is used as is butter. Yes they consume a rich diet…
My point is that the breads/croissants are only a small part of their daily balanced/everything in moderation type lifestyle!
I was raised in a European household……we saw plate around our food.
:innocent::innocent::innocent: