I’ll leave this link which is an extremely extensive write up on ketones. But, basically, blood testing looks for BHB, BHB is kind of like a battery for storage of energy. It still has to go through a process to be used. So, having it doesn’t necessarily mean using it and people can have it without being keto under some instances (fasting could be an example). I think the link should lead directly to this process in detail.
https://www.perfectketo.com/what-is-betahydroxybutyrate-or-bhb/#4
I will check it out but I think I know I get what you mean. For instance, if you drink exogenous ketones, your numbers could up but it doesn’t mean you are fully adapted to actually using it or using it effeciently. Is that what you mean? Blood tests show that you have more ketones being produced in the blood, but says nothing about how you are using them? If that’s the point, then I think it sounds about as useful as urine strips haha
You got it. Now, you can show usefulness with blood testing with more frequent testing but, there’s the expense factor with the strips. Basically seeing ketones go up and down shows production and use. And, you can still test postive for ketones after a carb binge on any of the testing methods. That’s why testing is such a mess when not tightly controlled. And, if keto eating is already great then the testing doesn’t add much to that.
Can we address what I mentioned, as to why some people are knocked out by avocados, nuts, and berries? Is it excess carbs, or something about those food items that pushes one out of ketosis.
Yeah exactly. I have used strips for a month or so testing multiple times a day, and certainly saw a strong correlation between my numbers going down when I was being a sloppy and going up when I was on it. It was useful but the point about it only telling half the story is well taken. It doesn’t say much about how effectively you are using ketones, just how well you are creating them. I think we could assume that if we are consistently creating blood ketones, the effeciency at using them part will happen through natural adaption, but the number itself won’t tell you how that is going exactly. I totally agree as well though that testing can dishearten people even when they are doing everything right if they don’t understand the nuance of blood ketone levels.
Those food items are common on keto, thus common to see people saying they went out of ketosis after eating. All foods raise insulin. Insulin can even be released in smaller amounts for fat (the body anticipating food can cause this release). For me specifically, I can be knocked out by avocados and some other things due to a glucose and insulin response to a latex-like protein cross reaction (it’s not extremely common if one isn’t already allergic to latex so, no worries for the vast majority.) But, like with other foods, once insulin goes down to normal levels again, the process of ketone production resumes.
It would be because of the carbs, and the insulin response that follows in certain individuals. Some nuts are higher carbs then others so pay attention to that, and berries are low sugar for fruit but still too much for some. I would suggest eating these carbs with fat. If you want to try berries, eat them with some cream. I’ve heard of some people struggling with avocado as it does contain carbs, so it’s certainly possible. All of these foods have a different GI index but there is some variability to how each individual reacts to them and what they can handle without an insulin spike. This is where some blood glucose testing can come in handy to see how you are personally reacting to these foods. Just BS meters are pretty cheap.
Thanks again for the blood testing clarification, makes total sense. I’ve always used glucose strips more as it is and I felt like I was getting more consistent info from them anyway, but ketone readings were confusing at times and as simple as the answer actually was, it was new info to me.
Thanks. Seeing a pattern here. Everyone eats berries with heavy cream. Learning as I go…
So every source of carbs (veggies, berries, whatever) do better paired with fat to decrease the insulin response?
Yes exactly. It’s best to try to follow the keto macros at each meal vs just tallying it all up at the end of the day. This is an extreme example but just for clarification, you wouldn’t want to eat all 20g (or whatever your goal is) of carbs for breakfast, all of your protein at lunch, and all fat and dinner. Now nobody does that, but the point is although you can have say 10g carbs at dinner when combined with the majority of the meals calories from fat, you might not do as well with 10g of carbs by themselves.
Haha, you could try a spinach salad with strawberries, feta, macadamia nuts and olive oil too! The way I make it it’s like 80% calories from fat
Thanks - I have been trying to do that. Outside of breakfast, which is just PURE fat!
That’s not going to hurt! The nice thing is that fat is so calorie dense it’s not hard to add some to every meal and get those macros right
Being that you seem knowledgeable in this arena, I hope you don’t mind a question. I don’t want to hijack the thread but I don’t know how to ask a particular person a question in a private message sort of way, and I’m not looking to start a whole new thread, so my apologies to OP if this isn’t helpful.
We were talking about measuring ketones vs glucose, and I have done some experiments measuring both that I didn’t completely understand. One test was drinking two glasses of wine with some fat in between, and I had almost no BS spike. It was at like 81, which is typical for my fasted BS. My ketones however went from around 1.8 to .9. The following days I continued to test ketones and they were normal, so I know it didn’t have a huge effect, but should I read that as the wine did decrease my ketones? I mostly understand your points about blood testing but I’m a little hung up on an example like this. I actually measured multiple days because I assumed a dip wouldn’t be instant, but the biggest dip was instant. Just coincidence?
The body processes macronutrients in a certain order. Alcohol (the 4th but non essential macronutrient) is first on the list and all other macronutrients get put on the backburner until it’s been processed. And, people respond differently to different alcohols. So, it’s possible that the ketones were reduced in between the tests and got stuck lower (as ketone numbers fluctuate while the body uses them). The wine could have caused the excess ketone energy to be stored temporarily while the alcohol was being processed. It could have caused an insulin response high enough to cause ketones to be put into the waste cycle so they’d be eliminated from your body. And, the alcohol could have just interfered with the test in general.