Urine Sludge

(Ehlert P Lassen) #1

I just completed my third 10-day water fast. I’ve been consuming water, a couple cups of coffee/day, tea (about three cups over the 10 day period), and the occasional mixture of raw apple cider vinegar with baking soda and water.

At the end of both my previous 10 day fast and this one, I’ve peed a heavy sludge. Today was the second time. It didn’t hurt when it happened although I could feel a difference from a regular pee. I wondered out loud to my wife if I had a UTI. She laughed and said we’d all know it if I did. I can’t seem to find any relevant info online that addresses this. Does anyone here recognize the phenomena?

I began eating Thursday morning. My next 7 day fast begins Monday morning.

Best wishes,

Ehlert

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

Baking soda is a base and vinegar an acid. Taking both together will cause a chemical reaction one product of which is likely an organic sodium salt which may be involved. I’m at work so I can’t look it up. But I will do so tomorrow unless someone else does so sooner. Why are you taking them together?

(Ehlert P Lassen) #3

Thank you Michael,

During the later days of my first 10-day fast, I began to experience upset, acidic stomach. I sought advice on this site, and the ACV/baking soda mixture was recommended as stomach soothing. It worked. Thus I’ve been consuming the occasional dose during my fasts.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

Just because you read it here, doesn’t make it correct. Your stomach contains hydrochloric acid, so baking soda dissolved in water would be just as soothing, probably more so than adding more acid in the form of vinegar. Some people seem to have a mystical faith in Apple Cider Vinegar™ as the end all and be all of good health. ACV is not required for the reaction to occur and will only increase the total amount of acid to be reduced. So it kind of defeats the goal of reducing acidic stomach.

The chemical reaction between backing soda and vinegar actually occurs in two steps. First, there is a double displacement reaction in which acetic acid in the vinegar reacts with sodium bicarbonate to form sodium acetate and carbonic acid:

  1. NaHCO3 + HC2H3O2 → NaC2H3O2 + H2CO3

Carbonic acid is unstable and undergoes a decomposition reaction to produce water and carbon dioxide gas:

  1. H2CO3 → H2O + CO2

The overall equation is this:

  1. NaHCO3 + HC2H3O2 → NaC2H3O2 + H2O + CO2

The sodium acetate salt (NaC2H3O2) disassociates (forms a dilute sludge) rather than dissolves in the water (H2O) and the carbon dioxide (CO2) gets burped out of the system.

I suspect the sodium acetate might coagulate in your urine because a similar reaction occurs when sodium acetate reacts with acidic urine. There are multiple possibilities of reactions between sodium acetate and urine due to urine’s variable composition and the variable concentrations of those components in urine. It could very well be that your ‘urine sludge’ shows up only when a certain combo at certain concentrations occurs.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

Baking soda and hydrochloric acid produce a much simpler reaction than adding vinegar to the mix.

Na2CO3 + 2HCl → 2NaCl + H2O + CO2

The reaction products are plain salt water and carbon dioxide, which is burped out of the system.

(Ehlert P Lassen) #6

Wow, thank you for your reply.

My next 7-day fast begins tomorrow morning. No doubt I’ll need to soothe my stomach by day 3. I will try a water/baking soda mix and leave acv entirely out of this fast. If I don’t experience the sludge which I have in connection with the previous fasts, there’s a fairly good chance your theory is correct.

Obviously I’m not saying anything is a scientific certainty. Parts of, or all, of the other theories may be valid as well, but for now I’m looking for a practical solution: soothing a sour stomach during a fast without incurring bouts of sludgy urine.

I feel extremely fortunate to be a part of an online community that expresses care for seeking folks.

Thank you all!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

You could also try plain water or salt water. Either might suffice to keep your acid under control without other complications. Dilute salt water has a soothing affect and might help. A mix of about 10 grams of any sodium salt (table salt, Redmond’s Real Salt, Himalayan pink salt, etc) in 1 liter of water makes a very palatable beverage. It would also have zero effect on your fast.

There is basically no chemical reaction between sodium chloride and hydrochloric acid, but the water dilutes the mix. Both sodium chloride and hydrochloric acid put H+ and Cl− ions into solution. So if you drink salt water and feel even worse - use plain water instead.

(Teb Tengri) #8

I’d probably call my GP and ask if he wanted to see/test it.