Uridine supplement on keto

(Alexander) #1

Many supps and foods kick me out of keto for some unknown reason. I’m afraid uridine would do so. Does anybody have experience with uridine supps on keto?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

Welcome to the forums!

Since uridine is generally easily produced by the body in the quantity needed, what would be the purpose of supplementing it? I’d be curious to know.

If the particular brand of uridine contains sugars (dextrose, maltose, etc.), then it might affect whether you stay in ketosis or not, though the quantity should be small enough not to be a problem, surely.

The point of staying in ketosis is to keep insulin low enough to avoid metabolic damage and allow excess stored fat to be metabolised, and the simplest way to lower insulin is to avoid dietary carbohydrate, since the glucose of which all carbohydrates are formed is what stimulates the secretion of insulin. Protein has a moderate effect on insulin, but the effect is minimal under low-carb conditions, and dietary fat has the least effect on insulin. So foods that contain a reasonable amount of protein and a satisfying amount of fat, while keeping dietary carbohydrate as low as possible, should not kick you out of ketosis.

(Alexander) #3

Uridine has profound action on insulin signaling, that’s why I asked. So I took it today 320mg, unfortunately it caused hyperinsulinimia lasted some hours. One more big no-no for me.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #4

I am assuming you are aware of the hyperinsulinaemia from its effect on serum glucose. I suspect that you are probably new to the ketogenic diet, and that you will find, as you go along, that as serum insulin drops and ketogenesis rises, serum glucose levels will become much less of a concern. Hyperglycaemia will not be a risk, because of the lowered glucose (carbohydrate) intake, and hypoglycaemia will be much less of a concern because ketone bodies will be supplying most of the brain’s energy needs.

Dr. George Cahill, as part of his studies of starvation in human beings, took a number of his subjects, applied a hyperinsulinaemic euglycaemic clamp to them, and drove their serum glucose down to levels that normally cause coma or death. Because their ketone levels were high from the fasting, however, they were perfectly fine. The investigators realised after the fact that they had done something highly unethical (it would certainly not be permitted by any institutional review board today), but it does show that ketone bodies can preserve brain function in the absence of glucose. Prof. Benjamin Bikman actually questions whether the brain requires any glucose at all, assuming that it is being fed from ketone bodies, whereas this study by Cahill is the source of the assertion that the brain needs at least 130 g of glucose a day, in order to function properly.

We get occasional queries from forum members concerned about the low level of serum glucose being reported by their glucose monitor. They invariably would never have known, if they weren’t already measuring their glucose, because they were not experiencing symptoms of hypoglycaemia. I suspect that there is an irreducible minimum to which serum glucose can drop (after all, the red blood cells require glucose, since they lack the mitochondria to metabolise fatty acids or ketone bodies), but it may be lower than we think—or at least, in the context of nutritional ketosis.

#5

How are you determining that?

(Alexander) #6

Keto sticks showed a huge drop from 8 to 1,5. The worst part is that my usual symptoms of disturbed glucose metabolism reapered with the drop of ketones bodies.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

@MorningStar The keto stix, aka pee sticks, are showing you only ketones you’re excreting. Those are ketones you’re not using, just pissing away. You would normally expect less waste over time as your metabolism/cells/organs readapt to using ketones. Your liver also gets more in synch with synthesizing ketones to meet your energy requirements more closely, rather than simply producing way more than you need and pissing them out.

If “…usual symptoms of disturbed glucose metabolism reapered…” then eat less carbs. Are you measuring, weighing food portions? What specific symptoms are you noticing? Keto is not magic and if you’ve got severe enough metabolic damage to fix, it will take time. Not going to happen overnight.

(Alexander) #8

Im on 6-8 grams of carbs per day. Uridine just switched my metabolism back to carbs. Symptoms are anxiety, muscle twitching, hunger, salivation, generally you can say its like mild hypoglycemia. If I eat lots of protein without enough fats to blunt/compensate insulin response I have same symptoms. Especially if I eat lean beef with out added fats, beef is the most insulinogenic protein afaik.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

Try zero carbs for a week or two and see what happens. You have yet to answer @PaulL query as to why you’re supplementing uridine. Your response to that question may help determine what’s going on. Also, this may provide useful info: