Unhappy with Progress so far please advise


(David ) #1

Good Morning.

As the title says, I am not very happy with my progress so far, I have been on Keto for around eight weeks, and in the first four weeks, I lost one stone, and I was delighted. Unfortunately, I have many medical conditions. I was taking a considerable amount of insulin, and I could not lose weight for the life of me.

I started Keto and immediately started losing weight. I had severe headaches and a constant need to urinate which have not yet settled down; however, more importantly, I have gained 4 pounds in the last two weeks. This week I have gained 3 pounds, and last week I gained 1 pound, and I’m a little confused about what is going on. I am in Ketosis as my meter shows I am around 1.6- 1.7. I am certainly not overeating, and I have cut down the amount of fat I eat as I was advised to do so

I take electrolytes every day to ensure that I am not deficient in electrolytes. I hardly have any carbohydrates. The only carbohydrates I have will be from sprouts or green beans that I have with Meat in my Evening Meal. I may have a cup of coffee with butter when I arise and possibly a couple of boiled eggs at Lunch, and before I retire to bed, I will have Some Greek natural yoghurt with some blueberries.

The only thing I have done differently in the last eight weeks is I have taken a total of 270 antibiotics for an injury I had to my arm, and I have just been put back on another course of antibiotics that ends on Thursday for mastoiditis this will explain my excruciating headaches, can anyone please advise what is happening, my blood sugar has risen to over 13 my blood pressure has gone up this morning 167 89, and my doctor wants to speak to me next Friday about adding more medication to the five tablets I already take for my blood pressure, I’m perplexed I was under the impression that going Keto would make things better, but unfortunately for me, I seem to be going in the opposite direction,

I understand that it takes time for things to change, and it doesn’t happen overnight, but my numbers are going in the opposite direction.

Regards
David


(May the blessing of bacon be always with you) #2

I guess the first question would be whether there’s any chance the gained weight is lean mass. If so, then keto is working as advertised. Otherwise, if you are in ketosis and gaining fat, something is wrong.

It is very odd that you are showing both high ketones and high glucose simultaneously. That is so far outside the usual experience, I’m certainly not qualified even to guess at what the trouble might be.

You might wish to discuss potential drug interactions with your chemist (in my experience, most physicians have no clue), to see what might be messing you up. If you’re already taking five separate medications for blood pressure, for example, adding a sixth might not be the best approach. And one wonders what all the other meds might be doing to you on top of it all.

One possible experiment would be to return to your customary carb intake, and see if your health improves. I can’t see that the carbs would help, but you may be an outlier, and keto may not be for you.

I’m sorry to be so useless, and your frustration is very evident in your post. Whatever’s going on, I’m sure you’ll get to the bottom of it. Good luck and God bless.


(David ) #3

Thank you very much for the response

I have for the last two months suffered from feeling quite ill due to an accident I had which caused a massive infection in my arm. I now have an infection in the back of my neck (mastoiditis). I also have a scalp infection hence the reason for so many Antibiotics

I have had problems with my sugar levels. Even whilst taking insulin, I was taking over 130 units per day, and my blood sugar was twice as high as it should have been. My diabetic team at the hospital now evaluates me for Oral semaglutide because injectables Do not seem to have much effect.

I am known to be resistant to quite a lot of medications. Three cardiologists evaluated me for my blood pressure, and not one of them could find anything wrong my heart is in absolutely perfect condition for my age. I also have to take an injectable for my cholesterol because Statins never worked. So maybe I’m just an awkward person.

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I will continue as I enjoy eating meat and have never been a great lover of carbohydrates, so being on Keto does not bother me.

Regards
David


(Marianne) #4

Can I ask how much weight you would like to lose? I’m afraid I can’t be any help to you regarding your medical conditions and medications, however, I would encourage you to continue with your new way of eating. It seems to me that your insulin, metabolism and weight loss will normalize if you continue with this and eat clean foods.

I would get rid of the pee sticks and any keto measuring devices you may be using. If you keep the carbs under 20g/day (I like to count total carbs vs. net carbs), you will be in ketosis. If you track anything, I’d make sure you are loosely meeting or exceeding your protein and fat macros, while keeping the carbs <20. It sounds like your program is good except I would eliminate the yogurt and blueberries altogether. Yogurt has a lot of carbs and I wouldn’t waste the ones you have on that. Maybe incorporate an ample romaine salad with home made blue cheese dressing at lunch or dinner instead. Assuming you are eating to satiety at breakfast, lunch and dinner, your food should adequately and comfortably hold you until morning or your next meal.

Good luck - please keep us posted.


(Michael) #5

Hi David,

I guess I am looking at your progress as generally going in the right direction. When you first start keto, most of the weight you lose is water that was bound up within your glycogen. The most fat you can lose in a day is around 0.25 kg per day, while eating zero calories. If you put a few pounds back on, it could very well be water re-absorption after dumping so much from glycogen. In terms of carbs, you claim to only eat carbs with veggies and then you note you ate greek (yuck!) yoghurt with blueberries, both of which have carbs. Perhaps you can double check that maybe you aren’t eating a bit more than 20g per day. With your extreme insulin usage over the past years, you are no doubt VERY metabolically challenged and your basal insulin may be too high now to continue to lose weight. But you will need to investigate more and proceed cautiously. With blood sugars at 13 mmol/L, you are still in high jeopardy. Have you changed your insulin intake already? Have your blood sugars gone down since starting keto (assuming same insulin amounts)?


(David ) #6

Hello, and thank you for the response.

I meant that I do not have any carbohydrates from around 11 pm until noon the following day. For my evening meal which I have at about 7 pm, I will have meat with sprouts and green beans. I also have about a tablespoon of butter mixed in with the vegetables. At around 11:00 pm, I will have some blueberries and about two tablespoons of Greek yoghurt. Then, from approximately 2.30 to 3 am, I will go to bed.

I get up at about .830 9 o’clock and will have a cup of coffee with butter and one egg yolk. I will have nothing but water until mid-afternoon when I may have another cup of coffee with butter and two boiled eggs, and that is it until 7 pm again
.
My blood sugar This past week, as well as my blood pressure and weight, have increased. My blood sugar has gone from a morning reading between seven and 7.92 this morning 13.1, and I cannot for the life of me get it to go down unless I take insulin.

At the start of this Keto, I drastically reduced my insulin from around 100 and 2030 units per day to about 60. Now I’m adding in the opposite direction, and I am now up to about 90 again. I checked my blood pressure about an hour ago, and it was 176-96. I hope these readings have been thrown off because of the infections I suffer from.

I don’t think I’m overeating. I don’t have much of an appetite. I could happily cruise along on coffee all day long and not be anything at all, but I’ve been advised that that’s bad and I shouldn’t do that, so I’m lost.

Thanks for the reply
David


#7

Many people overdo the fat, so that’s good, but you’re tracking your intake with an app or something? What are you averaging daily for everything?

On the electrolytes, make sure you don’t overdo them, and that the sodium/potassium balance is right. It’s very normal in keto to take in obscene amounts of Sodium, some people can deal with it, many can’t. Even when I balance it with potassium (which helps) I’ll retain water if my intake is high. I can use salt normally, just can’t eat “keto levels” of salt.

Both Antibiotics and Steroids can add weight fast, usually it’s only water. Doc’s never like prescribing targeted ones and the broad spectrum ones seem to do it the worst.

Are you on diuretics? I got a feeling your weight and probably some of the BP is water. If my water goes up my BP jumps up fast! When it does I have Lasix on hand, which will literally dump 10lbs on me in a night, BP normal next day.

Dandelion root @1500mg before meals does a pretty descent job at keeping water retention down, and pretty impressive for a natural herb doing it.


(David ) #8

Hello Ifod14

I’m not tracking what I eat with an app; I eat what I think is correct. Although I was overdoing it, I have cut it back quite a bit. Unfortunately, I have struggled with my blood pressure since I was 19, and I am 59. My blood pressure is never ever been in a normal range. A cardiologist diagnosed me as having labile hypertension.

My doctor is not happy with this diagnosis and thinks my blood pressure should be under better control, hence the reason for the appointment next Friday. I’m not expecting them to do anything with my blood pressure because, in all honesty, I don’t think you can. It’s just the way I am. Stop

I do have Lasix amongst my other blood pressure tablets, and I take 40 mg of latex every day, one in the morning and one in the evening, but they never move my blood pressure.

I have Been doing quite a bit of reading on the Internet, and it seems that the antibiotics I am taking can indeed cause high sugar levels and high blood pressure in both these coincided with taking the antibiotics over the last several weeks.

I have taken about 226 clindamycin for an infection I got around my elbow, and I had 1 L of antibiotics at the hospital, but I have no idea what that was.

I have then had A further three courses of doxycycline, one twice per day for seven days three times in total, so quite a lot of antibiotics. I am on my last packet now. I hope to have it finished by Wednesday; however, I now have a scalp infection and inflammation, and I have just been given a Betnovate C Ointment to use as necessary. I don’t know what that will do. Still, I have had the infection in my scalp for around ten weeks. I have been referred to the hospital, where they have confirmed they will take a biopsy to find out what is going on because it’s an occurring infection on my scalp for around 15 years.

As you can see, I seem to struggle with quite a bit of inflammation and infection that I have suffered with inflammation ever since I was a teenager. I have taken many anti-inflammatories, and I am, of course, taking ibuprofen to control them, so my medication is probably causing me quite a bit of difficulty.

I truly appreciate everybody’s help, and I feel much calmer now; this was getting me down over the last few days; I’m not craving any food; I was just disillusioned as to why it didn’t seem to be working for me, but I shall persevere, and I have course will keep everyone updated on my progress.

Regards
David


(Megan) #9

Hi David, thank you for giving a lot of detailed information. You are dealing with a lot of health conditions and I’m sorry about that. It can be tough. Your attitude is admirable.

I can only offer general feedback and talk about me, but I’ll share my thoughts. Changing what goes on inside our bodies, by changing what we eat, takes time. The sicker we are inside, the more time it takes. From everything you’ve said I think your journey will be longer than most. So be prepared for that, and any time you need encouragement I hope we’ll all be here for you.

From memory, in another thread, you said you don’t have much of an appetite and find it hard to eat much? From what you listed above, you are definitely not eating much. Great food choices in what you are eating though. Personally I don’t see anything wrong with greek yoghurt, especially in such a small amount (assuming you don’t have any issues with dairy). Check the different brands and make sure you’re buying the lowest carb brand, if you haven’t already. Carb content varies hugely in the 5 brands available at my supermarket, yet they all say they are unsweetened. I also found, when I was on keto, frozen strawberries had less than a 10th of the carbs of blueberries.

I’d love to see you eating more, generally nourishing your body more, and especially with quality animal fat/non plant fat.

How much meat is in your evening meal? What meat/s and how many grams? I’m asking b/c I’m hoping you are getting enough. I differ from some in my views on protein, especially for people who are insulin resistant and/or aren’t losing weight. Some folks advocate more protein than I do, but I do advocate getting enough - which varies person to person. They tend to be folks who do a decent amount of physical exercise and/or are young and/or are healthy. The calculation I am currently using is 1.4g protein / kg ideal weight, spread over meals throughout the day with each meal containing no more than 30 grams. I am in a group with some folks who are eating quite a bit less than 1.4g protein / kg of ideal weight but only on a temporary basis to break through a weight loss stall and/or reduce blood glucose levels. I’m working my way towards dropping mine a bit too.

A big part of our eating plan is to eat a lot of animal based fat to nourish our bodies (especially re hormone needs), nudge our reluctant bodies to burn fat instead of glucose (which some bodies still try to do even on incredibly low carb diets), and provide us with energy. Fat is a touchy subject though, opinions vary!

Your butter/egg yolk coffee sounds great, any chance you could have a couple more throughout the day? And if it’s a reasonably big piece of meat (which I’m guessing it may not be, based on your appetite issues?), try splitting it up into 2 meals if you can. You may also need to cut your carbs down to next to none for a while, given your blood glucose levels. If you decide to try pretty much removing them as a trial, it’s bye bye to that yoghurt and blueberries sorry.

You noted you struggle with quite a bit of inflammation. My CRP (blood test inflammation marker) has always been around 13. I have a lot of arthritis, on the waiting list for knee replacement surgeries, and a few other health conditions. Plus being overweight most of my life is strongly linked with a lot of inflammation. I had it tested last week after 4 months of carnivore. It’s now 3. Normal is less than 5. Both knees now look normal (swelling gone) and the pain is a fraction of what it was unless I walk way too far when taking my dogs out. General all over pain has also decreased. Something/s in plant foods wasn’t good for me. Probably a benefit from removing grains and sugar and removing processed foods. Keto folks eating clean foods also remove grains, sugar and processed foods so maybe you will notice a reduction in inflammation over time too. Here’s hoping!

Keep us posted David and all the best.


(Michael) #10

I saw you post this as well. While the range in Canada is given as < 5 for CRP, I feel (as does my doctor) that this is a case of allowing higher than acceptable values to fit the norm of society today which has too much inflammation. I have reduced my inflammation to 2 (CRP), but I consider under 1 to be appropriate, and most healthy people have a CRP in the 0.3 or less range. Just an FYI from my perspective, and that of my doctor who fully agreed.


(Michael) #11

When you say, I ate meat with sprouts and beans for dinner, that could mean a small plate, or a plate three times the size. As a result, it is hard to know what you are actually eating, but it sounds like you are eating very few calories. Do a calculation with more precision and determine your caloric input if you can. Some people switch to low carb and lose their appetite somewhat. As a result, they hear that they should not eat unless hungry, and they don’t. Slowly over time with undereating they slow their metabolism significantly. This can also happen in fasting.
I am actually a proponent for fasting if an individual has a high Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR). If not, they should fix that first and then fast to lower Insulin Resistance (IR) and help with both weight loss and ketogenesis. Currently it sounds like you have a very low RMR and would not recommend caloric restriction further at this stage. As I have a high RMR and I eat a lot of food when I do eat - today I ate coincidentally 285.5 g of protein and 285.7 g of fat (with 14 g of carbs in cheese) for a total of 3750 calories. Since I weigh 59 kg, this is apparently very high for me, BUT, I am currently eating 4 of 7 days in a week such that I am doing Alternate Day Fasting (ADF). This is working for me because I am eating a lot of calories on my eating days and I have a high RMR because of this. This would crash my RMR if I did ADF without feasting to very high amounts. Something for you to start thinking about possibly.


(Megan) #12

Yup, this has been done with what is considered “normal”/“healthy” blood glucose numbers too. However, after 4 months of not eating inflammatory foods like grains and sugar and processed junk, I am thrilled my CRP is down to 3 already and I no longer need knee replacements and I can actually walk about the house without crying out in pain. Maybe in another 4 months it’ll be even lower!


(David ) #13

Good Morning everyone.

Once again, I thank you all very much for the very detailed responses. I can confirm at the moment. I am not keeping track of the macros; I was getting used to cutting out carbohydrates or at least reducing them to around 20 G; I think I can also confirm that I’m certainly not eating enough, but as I said, I have never really had much of an appetite.

I think at some point. I will start tracking the macros in my food, as I believe this will be my next step. As for information, I didn’t know my CRP level before my injury, but it went from 14 to 70 in 24 hours due to the extensive infection I had in my arm. I was admitted to the hospital and put on a drip of antibiotics, hoping to reduce it. Although I was told if it didn’t go down, I would need surgery to remove the pool of blood under my skin, surgery never transpired, so I presume the infection had calmed down a little bit.

My CRP level is probably still high as I have an infection in my neck. In addition, I have an infection on my scalp, for which I have just been given some cream to reduce the inflammation. So, hopefully, in the next couple of weeks, I should be okay, and to top it all off, my daughter has a nasty cold, and I now have hoarseness and soreness starting, so it would seem I have now caught a cold.

The words of encouragement from everybody have been outstanding, and I will not give up until I feel entirely alone. So I’m sure that it will take quite a while to thank you all for the Alp advice and comforting words. I am very appreciative of them.

Regards
David


(Megan) #14

Hi again David, I’m glad you know you are not eating enough. Something you can try is prepare a small meal and take a few bites. Sometimes this will produce a desire to eat more of it. Weight loss can severely stall when under eating. Think of food (the right types) as medicine. You may not be hungry and you may not feel like eating but sometimes we need to take our medicine even if we don’t want to.


(May the blessing of bacon be always with you) #15

This is what makes general advice so tricky, and nuanced advice so long-winded, lol! You are right that we may have misled the OP somewhat. The general advice is to eat to satiety, but if years of caloric deprivation have lowered the person’s metabolic rate in compensation, then that person may need to eat a bit more, to try to bring the metabolism back up.

In any case, I find it disturbing that people think they are fine with 1200 or 1400 calories, when Ancel Keys’s wartime Minnesota Starvation Study defined 1600 calories as a starvation-level diet.


#17

I only find it distuyrbing when they actually need more. 1400 kcal may be even maintenance calories for some tiny beings but big people lost fat quickly and smoothly without problems eating 1500 kcal too… It’s very individual.
1600 kcal would be never starvation for me (sadly… I just can’t get that active :D) but 2500 kcal easily may be starvation for a bigger, more muscular, very active person (it’s my SO’s energy intake for a nice paced fat-loss and he isn’t big or muscular or anything)… There are huge differences, even for the same stats but without…?
Average and what someone calls what is irrelevant. We need to eat enough for our individual body. 1600 is just perfect for me, not too little, not too much, I expect a slow fat-loss using that (especially with my high-cal days, I need those, apparently).

But yes, it’s disturbing when for example chubby, active women are told they need to eat 1200 kcal to lose fat. I so hate that and it’s so very common! (When I was a chubby, at the time inactive woman, I lost fat eating 2000 kcal, it was nice. Okay, I am still chubby and more active and 2000 kcal is stalling but I still wouldn’t go below 1600 on average as it would be starvation and suffering to me. And good luck to take away my occasional 2500+ kcal days from me…) I have read disturbing things even on bodybuilder sites (women were told to eat lowish protein when cutting. what).


(Denise) #18

I’ve found that I have to fuel my body with a proper amount of food, enough food. I read tons on eating more to weigh less and finding it to be true with Keto foods as well. Just measuring progress by the scales didn’t work for me. I tried very hard not to use the scales, but listened to my body. If I was hungry I ate, still do, and learned to think about the time it took me to get out of shape, and sick (T2 Diabetic & several other issues) and had to be patient if I was going to have any peace of mind.

I’ve been on Keto almost 2 years (come January '23) am in good shape, love my new foods and workouts but I had to take it one day at a time.

I would calculate your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) and find the amount of calories you need. Study up on what sort of weight a person loses, water-weight, stored fat, and lean muscle mass. Decide then what your goals are and eat Keto foods according to how much your body needs. There is something called “starvation mode” imo where your body will hang onto the stored fat for survival.

I didn’t read the whole thread, but I hope this helps. I eat a lot for my small build and lost 27 lbs, most of that in the first year.


(Edith) #19

It sounds like your microbiome is really messed up from all the antibiotics.

I just got done listening to this podcast with Dr. William Davis, the author of Wheat Belly. You may find the information useful.


(Denise) #22

I’m going to look at this, sounds pretty useful Edith :wink: thank you :slight_smile:


(David ) #23

Yes me too thank you for the link