Two Urgent Care Physicians Blow Up The Shutdown

(Shaena Peterson) #83

Sites supporting them seem to support pseudo-science. Others do not https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/health/california-doctors-coronavirus-claims/index.html

(Jane) #84

Do you want them to be wrong???

I guess if I had suffered greatly from the official response (I haven’t) I would be pissed if it was not necessary. I have no dog in this fight. Just an observer. I have been paid to stay home the entire time and my husband is happy!!!

(Doug) #85

I think it’s more that some people want them to be right, but the fact is that they’re wrong.

π‘‘π‘€π‘œ πΆπ‘Žπ‘™π‘–π‘“π‘œπ‘Ÿπ‘›π‘–π‘Ž π‘‘π‘œπ‘π‘‘π‘œπ‘Ÿπ‘  π‘‘β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ π‘‘π‘œπ‘€π‘›π‘π‘™π‘Žπ‘¦π‘’π‘‘ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π‘‘β„Žπ‘Ÿπ‘’π‘Žπ‘‘ π‘œπ‘“ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π‘π‘œπ‘Ÿπ‘œπ‘›π‘Žπ‘£π‘–π‘Ÿπ‘’π‘  π‘Žπ‘›π‘‘ π‘šπ‘Žπ‘‘π‘’ π‘‘π‘’π‘π‘–π‘œπ‘’π‘  π‘π‘™π‘Žπ‘–π‘šπ‘  π‘‘β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’ π‘‘π‘–π‘ π‘’π‘Žπ‘ π‘’ β„Žπ‘Žπ‘‘ π‘Žπ‘™π‘Ÿπ‘’π‘Žπ‘‘π‘¦ π‘ π‘π‘Ÿπ‘’π‘Žπ‘‘ 𝑀𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑙𝑦, π‘Žπ‘›π‘‘ π‘‘β„Žπ‘’π‘Ÿπ‘’π‘“π‘œπ‘Ÿπ‘’ π‘€π‘Žπ‘  π‘›π‘œπ‘‘ π‘‘π‘Žπ‘›π‘”π‘’π‘Ÿπ‘œπ‘’π‘ 

We have a long time before that π‘π‘œπ‘’π‘™π‘‘ 𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑛 be true. Look at the countries around the world that have done the most testing, for their populations.

Faeroe Islands has tested 16.5% of the population, 0.38% tested positive. Iceland - tested 14.8% of the population, 0.53% positive. United Arab Emirates - tested 12.1% of the population, 0.14% positive.

The U.S. has tested 2% of its population, 0.36% being positive. Consistently very low percentages of positive tests thus far.

Even in San Marino, the country with the highest rate of virus deaths/population, 7.2% have been tested, 1.7% tested positive.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #86

New lightened Shelter in Place orders with an indefinite time frame, I expect the whole Bay Area and many parts of the country will do the same. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Peter) #87

People want them to be ACCURATE. This is not a thing where you can just hope that some self-serving morons happen to land on the right solution, ala POTUS. Pretending they’re right is worse than pointless, it’s buying into the self-serving and dangerous BS that is purely designed to keep their cashflow up. "Health"care is so badly misnamed its ridiculous.

(Jane) #88

Do you think you can avoid exposure indefinitely? The hospital near me is a ghost town. I say open up the restaurants starting at 25% occupancy and monitor the load on the hospital. My area does not need the same restrictions as a big city.

I see people at Walmart with masks but no gloves handling meat, produce and other goods and putting them back on the shelves. I see the Walmart employees filling curb side pickup orders with masks but no gloves. You really think that is β€œsafe” if you are trying to slow down the number of cases?

(Peter) #89

No, but I didn’t say that, or anything approaching it. β€œHoping” that they’re right when they are very VERY clearly wrong, as anyone who looks at it dispassionately can see, is just dangerous. Deliberately changing the subject with irrelevant examples is pointless and similarly dangerous. A structured approach is great, but only if it’s based on evidence, not dreams.

(Jane) #90

I get your point. But the doomsdayers who predicted millions of deaths were wrong also. And I don’t believe the β€œsocial isolation” hedged it off since we are still transferring viruses and germs every time we go shop for food or building supplies.

Slowed the spread? Absolutely. Prevented it? Not a chance.

(Ron) #91

@Janie, do you find it the least bit interesting that yesterday the USA experienced it’s highest daily death amount since Covid19 was first found here? Hmmm???

(Peter) #92

Oh yes, all of them, so many of them out there (extreme Trump-style whataboutism at its finest, here). We can also tell that was wrong because the pandemic is over and now is the time for arguing about how it was done wrong (oh wait, see Ron’s point below).

And that the US has vastly larger numbers of recorded cases (despite completely incompetent testing (relative to other countries which are also high on the list)) and overall deaths? Still, with 350 million people the US can afford to lose a few, especially given the demographics its targeting.

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#93

Does this mean that in your mind there is no number of deaths, no infection rate or no mortality rate that would justify a serious restriction on the movement of people? You think it would be the same in the end?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #94

@petert @mtncntrykid @TheOrangePimpernel

YMMV

Janie lives in rural Arkansas. Things are opening up here some, businesses are starting to reopen as of May 2. I suspect it will be different in many areas as to how things are loosened up. Stay safe. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Ron) #95

Here is a little perspective that might help-

There have been over 60,000 deaths in the US from Covid19. That is more than β€œALL” the American soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.
There are over 1 million Americans currently infected in the US right now still waiting to recover.

@David_Stilley - I agree, it is going to be interesting to see in the next month what will take place. :fearful: :wink:

(Jane) #96

It’s not over so can’t calculate accurately until it is but as of now 2% of all annual deaths in the US are attributed to COVID. And 30 million unemployment claims since March.

This is not sustainable. Eventually there will be serious food shortages and things will get ugly and violent real quick and you won’t be safe holed up in your homes. It’s not fair for those with incomes and savings to enjoy the luxury of being isolated while they expect those in the supply chain to be at risk so they can be fed, have clean water, trash pickup, electricity, Amazon delivered to their front door, etc.

I’ve stayed in my yurt with no water or electricity and got flooded in and ran out of food. It was no picnic.

(Jane) #97

If people are really concerned about death rates and exposure then we should have shut down all liquor stores, breweries, distilleries - not essential. Shut down all facilities that produce sodas, energy drinks, anything with sugar in it - not essential. All snack food manufacturing facilities such as chips, cookies, etc - not essential. All coffee roasters - not essential.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #98

Personally I think the death stats are pumped up and skewed compared to the normal flu stats. The people who die have co-morbidity causes of death. This happens all the time with the flu as well but when most doctors fill out a death certificate they something like death was caused by pneumonia and COPD and might not even mention the flu. They didn’t die from the flu they died because their body was in such a bad state they couldn’t recover from the flu.

Every person who dies and has Coronavirus gets that listed as the cause of death. So unhealthy people are dying, how many of those sick people might have passed anyway, that happens too without COVID. So I honestly believe that stats are skewed to make it look worse.

Yeah, it’s terrible and I’m on immune suppression, over 60 and A+ blood type so all the extra risks too. I wish I could be tested because I think I already had it in January-February. I was sick 25 days with a persistent respiratory issue and had most of the common symptoms listed. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Full Metal KETO AF) #99

OMG Jane, you wanna see real public unrest? All the public in withdrawal at once is a scary thought! :scream::laughing::joy::joy::wink:

Note that I didn’t quote your statement about coffee roasters because they are as essential as gas stations! :joy::joy::joy::cowboy_hat_face:

(Doug) #100

But there are a LOT more deaths than the total of historically normal deaths (which includes the flu, etc.) and attributed Covid-19 deaths.

Example: a total of 20,000 deaths, with 10,000 being what’s historically normal and 5,000 from Covid-19 (tested positive, had symptoms that are consistent with the disease, etc.). That leaves 5,000 β€œextra deaths.” A lot of the β€˜extra’ ones are among old people, at home or in aged care centers, and involve respiratory failure - it’s pretty obvious that Covid-19 is going to be involved with many of these.

Some deaths will be due to people with other medical problems not going to the hospital or doctor as they normally would have. There is then the offsetting factor that all-cause-mortality tends to go down in times of economic downturn. We are still left with a lot of β€˜extra’ deaths, even above the ones easily attributable as Covid-19.

In most places there’s nothing unusual going on, other than Covid-19. Where we see β€œa lot” of deaths - death rates were tracking along, right with historical norms and then Whammo the virus outbreak begins and the death rate takes off.

UKCovid

For a real-world example, as of mid-April, the U.K. was running about 55% above the normal death rate. March 14 to April 17, there were ~31,500 β€˜extra’ deaths with 20,904 reported as Covid-19. This leaves ~10,600 deaths to attribute, obviously including some Covid-19 cases, i.e. there’s an overall under-count of Covid-19 deaths.

This is a good point - much is still on the individual, usually; i.e. it’s up to us. Whether one is for continuing restrictions or lifting them, they’re going to be lifted before most of the population is exposed to the virus.

PandemicWaves

I don’t think the new coronavirus will play out this way, and of course nobody knows what will happen, at this point.

It is still early in the overall outbreak, however. In most of the U.S. the β€œfirst wave” is still going on, even still being on the upslope. I think cases and deaths will relatively slowly accumulate, mostly due to lower population density. I see a much longer, flattened β€˜first wave’ with restrictions being lifted while it’s occurring. In the end, I bet it’s pretty much of a β€œno decision” verdict - things will not get that much worse, nor fast enough, for the majority of people to blame the lifting of restrictions. Here in Georgia we’re some of the best current β€˜guinea pigs’ - we will see.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #101

Today’s COVID 19 stats for Santa Cruz County, population approx 224,000 since it started. Little has changed in three weeks, like 12 new cases in two weeks and the second death about a week ago. Draw your own conclusions from that data. :thinking:

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I especially love the political correctness Santa Cruz County shows with the last sentence. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Todd) #102

This is the nicest disagreement I’ve read about Covid 19. I agree with you David_Stilley. Chicken Little is running rampant in this country. When I hear someone talk about the β€œmodels” I switch off and move on.

I remember Gov. Cuomo screaming that he needed 40,000 beds and 20000 ventilators. Whatever the President sent him, β€œNot Enough!” I even remember him saying, give NY all the ventilators from the national stockpile and he would give them back when another state needed them. And add to that an almost unused hospital ship and Javits Center.

I wanted to try and understand the death rate so I looked on the CDC website for numbers. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm . What stood out to me is 647,000 die from Heart Disease and 599,000 from Cancer. That’s every year, 1.2 million Americans Die from something other than Covid 19.

Side note:
Just to be sure, I reread the Constitution and the first 10 Amendments. I still don’t see the clause that says void if everyone is sick or… we think they could become sick.