Two Urgent Care Physicians Blow Up The Shutdown

(Full Metal KETO AF) #1

An interesting presentation and perspective about the COVID shutdown. Still watching it but I definitely thought it’s worth a share. :cowboy_hat_face:


People aren’t going to hospitals because they know hospitals can’t do anything. Not because they aren’t infected.

What he’s saying only applies in California and other southern states. Sunshine increases immunoglobulins and hence them gaining immunity early.

(Full Metal KETO AF) #3

What they actually said was people aren’t getting care for other chronic health conditions for fear of getting COVID. These are the people who die more often when infected. The statistics of how easily COVID spreads means infection is pretty much inevitable for the vast majority of us. That quarantine of healthy individuals works against fighting viral outbreaks by weakening our immune systems This is immunology 101. I myself am following protocols because I’m on immune suppression and am one of those more susceptible. However I think I possibly already had it in January. I was sick with a respiratory bug that would almost be over and back hard the next day, night fevers and other COVID symptoms. I was sick over three weeks and I haven’t had a flu or bad cold in over 10 years before that. I was also regularly getting dental work in a large University clinic in San Francisco.

Not everyone in California hangs out in the sun. And it was winter here and the weather wasn’t great a lot of the time.

(Jane) #4

Exactly - people aren’t getting the care they need because they are afraid of contracting COVID, their spouses aren’t let in to be with them and many hospitals have banned anything except COVID or life-threatening conditions.

We aren’t the Pacific Northwest here in the south (Arkansas) but we have had a cold, dreary winter and spring with way too much rain and very little sunshine.


You think people are out sun bathing or even remotely getting enough sun to make a difference at this point? People aren’t going to hospitals, one, because they’re afraid of possibly getting infected there, and because what 85% of people that get this don’t even know it then beat it.

(Dirty Lazy Keto'er, Sucralose freak ;)) #6

Yes. I see it every time I’m out on a hike / photography trip. Lots of people out, certainly more than usual. Only about half with masks.
Personally speaking, I’m getting more sun (both from yardwork, and hikes / photo trips) than I have in 4 or 5 years.

(charlie3) #7

No matter the merits, when there start to be summer days here in Michigan trying to keep people indoors will get ugly. Can’t enjoy a summer day? Might as well be in jail.

(Jane) #8

In Arkansas hardly anyone in a mask or gloves. No stay-at-home orders. Business as usual except for the mandated businesses closed.

No pandemic here. We are waiting to get back to work and a normal life.

(Doug) #9

At 18 minutes in, I see quite a few problems with the statements in the video. Thus far:

Some anecdotal stories/cases are mentioned without giving any proof that they really represent what is going on, overall. If you say that child abuse is up - let’s compare the overall rate with what is historically normal. Don’t just say you’re seeing some cases - that would be true anyway.

It’s often very slanted, i.e. “Initial models were woefully inaccurate” If he’s not just playing stupid here, then shame on him for a horrendous lack of knowledge. The speaker tries to just slip that in there, but somebody else in the room calls him on it - they are aware that model he’s talking about was if nothing was done, i.e. in the “absence of any control measures or spontaneous changes in individual behaviour.” Now, with a lot having been done on both counts, of course the numbers are greatly changed - but left to his own devices the speaker would have attempted to have left those facts hidden.

Anytime you see somebody pulling this kind of stuff, it should raise questions about everything they say.

“We decided to shut down travel to and from China. These are good ideas when you don’t have any facts.” Okay…? :smile: In the beginning there was more we did not know, sure - but given how epidemics operate, should you not try to keep infected people isolated, and stop uninfected people from traveling to hotspots of infection? How in the heck does he think the first SARS outbreak and the MERS events were controlled? Good grief - now, with hindsight, is he saying that we were foolish to restrict travel between China and the U.S.?

He makes silly assumptions about the number of deaths. While he’s correct that deaths thus far are a very small part of total populations, he acts like New York State, for example, will not have more Covid-19 deaths in the future. That’s just nuts.

He confuses what is essentially 1.5 months with an entire year. It was not until March 17 that the U.S. went over 100 deaths. Yet he compares Covid-19 deaths with an entire year for the flu. Dude…

He is completely wrong and false about Covid-19. “The lethality of Covid-19 is much less than the flu.” Even while we are as yet in the early months of this outbreak, we already know that he’s wrong there.

He talks about people with heart disease, cancer, etc., acting in fear about the virus. Well hey, man - those people should be worried, and trying darn hard to avoid infection.

He’s wrong about Norway and Sweden. “The differences are statistically insignificant.” No - Sweden has 6+ times the per-capita deaths already…

He’s also very wrong about what the Swedes have done - he ought to read this forum right here, with all the discussion about Sweden that’s occurred, before he makes videos. :wink:

He talks about the death rate, and then asks, “Does this necessitate the destruction of the oil company?” He is painfully unaware of the economic reality, there - the oil market was in freefall long before we were taking anti-Covid-19 measures. The markets and individual behavior were having their effect whether or not any stay-at-home measures, etc., were put in place. This is a common thing - the horrendous under-estimation of the economic reality of the virus’s effects and the over-estimation about how much difference lifting gov’t restrictions will make.

He mentions the number of deaths in California - which indeed is a small number compared to the total population. He asks, “Does the current death rate necessitate sheltering in place”? First, California has done a lot, and overall has been quite successful in its control measures. Why does he think the numbers are as low as they are? Why does he think that CA is doing better than quite a few places, both in the U.S. and around the world? It’s silly to look at the current state of things, there, and somehow try and extend that to, “We never should have social-distancing, staying-at-home, etc.”

If he would only be addressing the future, then I agree there are good questions about when to lift restrictions, etc. But to take the effects of restrictions and then to make an argument that the restrictions were somehow not needed is just plain silly.

(Jane) #10

Plus first-hand information from my neighbors who advocate for child abise victims (CASA)

(Jane) #11

Not just in the US:

(Jane) #12

One neighbor travelled to Italy in November and became very ill with an upper respiratory illness after she got back.

Another in her 70’s became ill after New Year’s with a bad upper respiratory illness and lost her sense of smell and taste. Sounds familiar…

Since we were all at the same New Year’s Eve party if she had COVID then we’ve all been exposed (neighbors). No way to know without testing for antibodies and I don’t see that happening any time soon for us in BFE Arkansas.

(Doug) #13

Thanks, Jane. :+1: It’s good to see some information, there. It will be interesting to see how things compare when restrictions are lifted.

Antibody testing - I’m not even sure there’s a high-confidence one yet widely available; so many - at least until recently - had brutal rates of false positives and negatives. Arkansas - things are moving very slowly. Comparatively, very few deaths and identified cases - indeed it would be good to find out how many have had the virus.

(Jane) #14

Enforced confinement of healthy people pushed this TEACHER over the edge. Scary this special brand of crazy was (I assume she will lose her job) teaching kids. All she had to do was call the cops and walk away.

(Jeff S) #15

And their viewpoint is totally unbiased! It isn’t like they have a financial interest in opening back up because they own 5 clinics or something.:roll_eyes:

(Peter) #16

(bulkbiker) #17

Show me someone in the medical field in the USA who doesn’t have a financial interest ?

(Jane) #18

This whole country has a financial interest in opening back up! Have you seen the unemployment claims currently in the system?

(Full Metal KETO AF) #19

Thanks @petert He is wrong about one thing for sure, the video is still up and hasn’t been censored.

@Backspin Don’t you think that the majority of people have similar financial distress if they aren’t able to work for others or operate their businesses? So they have clinics with probably over 100 employees who are also not working. Everyone is affected not just business owners. Just because they own and operate Emergency Care Clinics does that mean their viewpoint is invalid?

Nobody’s making money except Walmart and Costco, where apparently we’re safe to gather in huge numbers but the parks are closed? I think they are right about some things for sure, like that we’re kind of naive about being protected by quarantine protocols that are absolutely inadequate. People putting an old bandana over their face to go grocery shopping is pretty ineffective. Most people don’t know how to make a mask that’s adequate and think they’re protected while they grab stuff packaged in plastic that carries live germs for 3+ days. Do you guys wear gloves and disinfect everything you buy in stores? People handled those things putting them on the shelf, not to mention the folks like us who read labels and frequently put stuff back on the shelf. The vast majority of people don’t have the understanding or care enough to do strict protocols for not spreading germs. If you’re masked and germs are in the air do you think they don’t settle on everything? Your clothes, forehead, hair and arms all get germs on them too. To fantasize that you’re germ free with hand sanitizer and a bandana and safe is ludicrous. Shelter in place or not you can’t avoid exposure unless you’re a hermit living in the wilderness and hunting your food.

COVID has been found in cats. They typically recover and develop antibodies but potentially a cat that’s infected could be a carrier without symptoms and cause future outbreaks. If your cat is anything like my last one (food whore) and goes to several houses in the neighborhood to visit and get fed. Lots of people I don’t know in the neighborhood were very friendly with him as I found out on the Nextdoor app when someone lost a cat that looked like mine and about five people posted my cat’s picture as one that hangs around sometimes. It’s uncertain if feline to human spreading of the virus is out of the question. We don’t know really. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Jeff S) #20


Doesn’t mean their viewpoint is invalid - but it means it should be viewed with reasonable skepticism.

Who do I trust more - someone whose specific job it is as an epidemiologist to advise the country, or a couple of docs with obvious vested interests?

When I saw their video the first time it set off the same kind of alarm bells for me that obvious spam email does.

  • They used their credentials as doctors to try to legitimize their sketchy conclusions based on their own research - research that contradicts doctors at the highest level who specialize in epidemiology and immunology.
  • They couched their conclusions in the words used by the political right. So they seem to have a political agenda too.

These things invite skepticism for me. YMMV