I didn’t perceive that Jeff, but I don’t follow either political party here in the US. I have to wonder if they had “couched” their viewpoints in words that you associate with liberal politics if you would have brought that up as an objection. I don’t see this as a political issue although it probably is since everything here has political agendas behind it and most people have political opinions on everything. Let’s not infer this is all about right wing politics. This kind of partisan thinking and paranoia about people who believe in different political philosophies is what keeps anything from getting done here in America. Let’s keep the conversation politically free please. I don’t want the thread shut down.
I don’t want medical information coming from either side of the political agenda. I like evidence based facts. Of course even experts and doctors don’t all agree with each other on facts, with or without political bias in the equation. But if the information reeks of bias, and vested interests are not disclosed, I get very skeptical.
But pretty tame for New Jersey, isn’t it?
How do we balance all events? There will be cases like this, but with lifting restrictions there will be people who go back to work and die from the virus, even younger people, apparently healthy, from the rare but appearing-here-and-there stroke cases.
Okay, somebody yells. I rate this as very low on an overall scale. How many such cases would equal one death? I would say a huge number. Same for people who are complaining about stay at home orders. Yes, it sucks, but one death outweighs thousands of such complaints.
I am from the UK so I probably miss the nuances of the politics in the US. I watched the video of the two doctors from California yesterday and thought it made a lot of sense in many respects. The doctors may have commercial reasons for making and posting the video but that did not detract from the message in my view.
The way to build an immune system is to challenge it rather than sterilise everything and hide away from people, animals and all germs. What is untrue about that?
Historically we have quarantined the sick, but never before have we quarantined the well. Yes that is also true. They were not calling for a free for all but for proper testing so that the well can get back to living their lives. Made sense to me.
There has never been a viable vaccine against any corona virus (to the best of my knowledge - please correct me if I am wrong) and I am doubtful about whether such a vaccine will be possible and effective in this case. That means we all need to encounter this virus and get it over and done with one way or another.
We have flattened the curve of the outbreak and avoided overwhelming our health services with the first wave but we cannot hide at home forever.
I am lucky, I have a home and my relationship is good. Imagine the pain of living in close quarters with an abusive partner whose paycheck has stopped with the threat of foreclosure or eviction on the cards. We cannot just carry on as we are indefinitely but if you have not already done so, perhaps write a will and let your children know where it is kept.
I can see what she is so angry about, is the carelessness in the acts of others but when very social people get bored to death they become senseless.
I can see writers making fictional supernatural stories about the great COVID-19 epidemic of 2020 and crossing over to the other-side. There comes a point where we don’t care if we die to get out of our sarcophagus wether be a confined space or our own body, the human spirit does not like being trapped, contained and controlled?
So I see now that the video has been removed from YouTube for violating policy. I originally saw an excerpt about 11 minutes long that Shawn Baker has included in his post last weekend. Then I found the original complete and posted that. I just checked and they censored Shawn’s video with the clip as well.
The YouTube thought police, at it again!
I am so disappointed to see that it has been censored. I had not quite finished watching and had planned to go back to it this afternoon.
Glad I was able to see most of it. Thank you.
It is funny how YouTube is the gatekeeper of what I am allowed to see. This video is a robust exchange of ideas and has a high degree of actually being a correct course of action. What is the harm in debating whether the shutdown is what is best for combating the virus other than it is politically conflicting with YouTube’s narrative?
It is still available on other platforms.
This is what they don’t want you to see:
Yeah, I found it and watched but still don’t like others deciding what I can see. I don’t mind blocking grotesque images, racism etc. but this video hardly can be blocked as “dangerous” or “false” content
Getting angry is ok. All she had to do is call the police and leave.
And who are these two kids harming by tossing a football in an empty field? Who could they infect other than each other?
This is as crazy as people being arrested in Rhose Island driving IN THEIR OWN CAR to their second residence THAT THEY OWN to get out of New York city. Who can bame them?
If we were large enough to have a newspaper in my county the headlines this morning would have the largest type that could fit and say
OMG - COVID-19 CASES DOUBLED OVERNIGHT!!! CRISIS!!!
And it would be true. We went from 3 to 6 cases in one day. The original 3 have recovered. No deaths in a tri-county area from me. The large hospital is empty with people suffering because they can’t get non-life-threatening medical care with all the doctors and nurses on leave. Why not just make one floor the “quarantine floor” and manage it that way? Especially since there are 9 cases in the county with the hospital and certainly not all NINE people required hospitalization. And it hasn’t increased from 9 in 2 weeks.
I realize every place in the country is unique and my state has been the most lax because of the low density population but it is time to open the hospital back up and start caring for people again.
Totally disagree, Scott. It was full of stupid stuff - there’s no way the docs didn’t know better. Come on… Any time you see that degree of slanting things, deliberate obfuscation and false statements, you know it’s pretty silly.
You do realize that the only other option we have is to keep doing what we are doing for another year and a half possibly without a miracle happening first. To not question that idea would be insane. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong here but if different ideas can not be entertained purely because some don’t like them won’t allow us to explore all of our options. The worst thing we can do is make a bad decision and stick with it only because we don’t want to admit we got it wrong the first time. I have to admit I probably dosed off and need to rewatch but what I did see I agree with.
There should definitely be discussion of how we got to where we are and where we are going. In this case I see parallels with vegans raising important topics of discussion such as sustainability and health but creating and using bad data to push their agenda. Although I have not heard of censoring vegan propaganda or much questioning of its potential harm.
In no way was I saying that. What I was saying is that those two clowns are full of crap. Hey - anybody that pulls that kind of silly stuff should get laughed off the stage, regardless of one’s political affiliation, opinion on stay-at-home orders, etc.
If anybody asserting that “we should maintain stay-at-home orders for a year and a half,” for example, approached the issue with the same type and quantity of outright lies, half-truths, deliberate obfuscations, etc., the howls from those who have a gut-basic “we should lift restrictions” feeling would be immense. And rightly so - BS is BS, and I’d argue just as strongly against them as I would against the speaker in that video.
You’re more than reasonable there, Scott, and they certainly can be entertained. Heck, I will state that restrictions will be lifted, comparatively soon, in many states, even with there being pretty good arguments against doing it. So not only should we explore all of our options, we’re going to see results from a variety of option implementation.
I am not trying to argue here but it may come off that way and if it does I am sorry. I feel that without some mitigation from herd immunity we are going to end up where we started this by distancing to spare the hospitals from being overrun. I think the warm summer months are the time to let the virus naturally spread slowly in the non vulnerable population before the fall virus season is upon us. Without any herd immunity next fall may make this winter look like a walk in the park because it will start much earlier. It is risky and yes some won’t make it. Having said that I am not saying people should go out and have a party like what I saw on the morning news, now that is stupid. The virus can spread just fine on its own, it needs no encouagment.
Dude no worries.
There’s just so much we don’t know. I agree - it would be great to have people develop immunity while keeping deaths low. Just not sure how much the more-vulnerable can be protected.
We also don’t really know what “immunity” will be like. Children do seem to develop at least a short-term immunity, but 6 days ago the World Health Organization said, “As of 24 April 2020, no study has evaluated whether the presence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 confers immunity to subsequent infection by this virus in humans.” Well, that’s kind of a bummer.
Yeah… Something to think about:
No idea if the current virus deal will play out that way, but it bears thinking about, for sure.
In the U.S., the states of Georgia, Mississippi and Florida are easing restrictions, and my own state of Georgia may well lift almost all of them. The original shelter-at-home order expires at midnight tonight. Perhaps all but the sick and elderly will have no more restrictions…
Harvard/Massachusetts Institute of Technology study on this:
A wide spread of outcomes…