Too much hindering me?


#1

I have been keto for about 4 months now but I think my over-exercising habits might be hindering me.
I have been in ketosis since nearly the beginning save for a few random incidences where I don’t even know what happened but the blood monitor registered low. Maybe twice in that whole time, so not a lot and not from purposeful binges or cheats

Anyway my main goals on keto are hunger control, first, and a little bit of fat loss, if that ever happens. In many ways I feel fat adapted but I am still very hungry.
Anyone had to cut way way down on exercise to get the hunger control? It’s the only thing I haven’t tried yet, and I just have a feeling it’s getting in the way


(Stacy Blanchard) #2

I love to exercise. It is a constant in my life. My point in telling you that is I will not be the one to say stop exercising.
Are you measuring all your food? How often are you eating? When you say hunger control, what are you hoping to accomplish.
My first instinct is to suggest you are not eating enough when you do eat. If your weight loss goals are small then eat till your full and don’t stress about quantity of fat or even protein. Listen to your body.


#3

I love exercising so much, I’m fairly certain I overdo it and this is not a new thing on keto. I do measure and eat 3x per day. I’m extremely hungry for each meal and even after them, sometimes. This is not what I believe to be common on keto.

I could stand to dial down the intensity of my exercise and I think that would help me in a lot of ways. This doesn’t even really relate to keto, necessarily, other than I’m not getting satisfied and I know that keto should be doing that.

I’m eating enough, because I’m not losing weight and am gaining muscle so the food intake is enough. I somehow hypothesize that the intensity of my cardio and lifting is causing some metabolic and hormonal responses that aren’t serving me. I would love nothing more than to go for it 110% every day because I actually enjoy that feeling during and after. But too much is too much and although I’m not suffering any symptoms of “overtraining” my hunger and body comp aren’t really cooperating, so I’ll give it a go a la n=1. Just wondering if anyone else on here dialed it down and got better results.


(Edith) #4

Well, if your exercise is too much, it could be causing stress which raises cortisol which causes insulin to go up which will make your ketones go down.

On the other hand, according to Stephen Phinney, athletes are often at the low end of ketone scale. They use up their ketones.

If you exercise as much as you say, you probably need to eat more and get more electrolytes. A low level of electrolyte insufficiency maybe be manifesting itself as hunger.

You may want to read “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance” by Stephen Phinney and … (I can’t think of his partner’s name at the moment). This may help you figure out how to proceed.

Let us know what you figure out.

Edith


#5

THanks. Volek is his partner’s name - read it! :grinning:
I really appreciate the feedback. I do know that athletes can be keto and keto can support athletics but I think for my body, it’s too much (for too long over too many years) and to see the real healing benefits I need to cool it some and let things be. We’ll see how it goes


(Erin Macfarland ) #6

@ketoteacher1 one factor that will also dictate your hunger levels is your body composition. If you’re very lean, you will find yourself very hungry, despite eating a lot. If you are too lean your body will increase hunger hormones to replace body fat stores. Plus lots of exercise on top of that will absolutely make you very hungry. It kind of concerns me how much you say you’re exercising, that can easily turn into a disorder so you have to be careful.


#7

Thank you for your concern and words of wisdom, Erin. I’m not too lean at 23% body fat, but I most definitely have an exercise addiction that isn’t serving me now, or ever. I seem to crave the intensity but it doesn’t like me so I’m going to cut it waaaay down and I"ll let y’all know if that helps. I’m quite sure it will but we’ll see


(Bunny) #8

@ketoteacher1 I agree with Erin, if your exercising you can get away with eating a little more with the exception that your active and thus an innate signal telling you to eat more, just because we are doing keto or fasting does not mean we should ignore subtle signals that may be warning us, that we may need a little more nutrients. Feeling guilty that we are some how cheating and not going to benefit can make it worse.

Most of the videos, literature and websites out their by doctors and other peeps about keto really do not address this gray area!

If I’m exercising and active I will do two or three meals a day. If I’m not active I will do one meal a day and that’s usually dinner.

It was and still is fairly easy for me to lose weight and in the beginning did it very slowly in tiny increments by making subtle changes in carb and sugar intake; not to shock the metabolism; decreasing what I was eating all the time to once a day, then slowly switching out to keto type foods 3 times a day to two times a day, then to once a day, then back to 3 times a day once goal weight is reached!

Amy Berger has a good handle on this topic:

”…If you are at your wit’s end, at the end of your rope, and whatever idioms might be the equivalent in the native languages of my overseas readers, take heart.

Let’s start off with two very important pieces of information:

LCHF is good for health, even if you’re still heavy.

  1. Low-carbohydrate diets are extremely good for overall health, EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF WEIGHT LOSS. This is very important to keep in mind. Believe me, I know…pretty much all of us want to look good naked, or, at the very least, look better naked than we do now. But you must, must keep in mind: even if you’re still carrying around extra weight, if your bloodwork is looking pretty good, there’s a strong likelihood that you are healthier than someone who is thinner than you are, but who is a walking metabolic trainwreck. (See this post for details on “TOFI” – thin outside, fat inside.) …More

(Jay AM) #9

Fat to satiety. Fat is energy. If you are hungry, you aren’t eating it to satiety. You’re putting high energy demands on your body while also forcing it to conserve energy by not eating enough. The stress response from exercise and unnecessary calorie restricting is a double hitter for raised cortisol and thus raised insulin and, with raised in insulin, comes the inability to use ketones and fat efficiently. If you really think you have an exercise problem, definitely scale it back. It’s doubtful you’re actually getting much benefit if you aren’t getting enough nutrition and rest. Maybe consider adding Jason Wittrock to your YouTube list. He’s 5% body fat fitness model who maintains without ridiculous amounts of exercise, no restricting, no counting. He also does a 21 day challenge where he takes in 4,000 calories a day and, while his weight fluctuates, he ends up losing a couple tenths of a body fat percentage with less exercise than normal. It’s worth a look.


#10

That is so interesting, JAM. I really appreciate all these suggestions and ideas. I will definitely take a look at Wittrock (and indeed he’s a rock at 5% bf, lol).
I think this issue is really something I’ve needed to address for years, and actually had nothing to do with keto. I don’t fast, I don’t do OMAD and I don’t even do 2 meals a day. That’s really the truth when I say I’m HUUNNNGRY - there is no way I could do that. I used to do 4 meals a day and it was soooo difficult (like extremely) to take it to just 3! And these are full on meals.
Fat is not very satisfying to me. I love it, but it does not invoke that leptin response that tells me “enough. Thank you, I 'm full”. Protein does so leaning a bit heavier on it, despite keto being a moderate protein diet,helps. I’m still moderate, its just the higher end of moderate for protein and the lower end of high for fat, which helps.
I have tried many times to turn it down a notch (or 5) on the cardio and weights and it’s always fine at first, then it creeps back up. Other people fight carb creep, I fight exercise creep.
I really enjoy experimenting on myself and seeing what helps and what doesn’t. My body is just telling me that what I do in the gym, how often and intensely I do it, is too much for my body. It’s nothing compared to other people, maybe, and that’s where I go wrong. I think “marathoners run 8 miles on their easy days” but I"m not a marathoner, don’t want to be one, and that quite frankly would probably kill me. My tolerance for exercise just seems lower than it used to be
I’m dialed in on macro ratios but the calories get me and it’s only after being very hungry and avoiding it for too long. I know that’s not the idea AT ALL and if I can’t curtail it, it’s gotta be the workouts. Again, it seems to be the only aspect not working for me


#11

5 days of nothing but walking, weights (lighter with more reps) and yoga has me feeling like a new person!
I don’t even think this necessarily has anything to do with keto, this is just a struggle I’ve had for a long time. It seems, oddly, that my sensitivity to hard exercise increased the more I put myself through it.

I used to run a lot and do HIIT and heavy weights and you name it. Then I had to move to walk/runs and HIIT training way less and now even ANY running totally makes me feel AWFUL. My appetite, mood, energy and outlook have all very much improved. I will keep this program and see how it goes


(Rob) #12

I love it when people solve their problems AND let us know how for future reference.

It’s a bit sad that the emerging stars of exercise - HIIT and slow/heavy lifting - aren’t working, but it shows that we all need to test things for ourselves and there are no universals.

Let us know if you reincorporate, especially the HIIT/lifting since these are supposed to be the most effective regimes going.


(Jay AM) #13

I suspect they’d be effective body recomposition plans for most people as long as they weren’t done excessively and had good rest in between as well as a good base of nutrition.


#14

This was part of the problem. Because the all-knowing interwebz :slight_smile: said they were the thing to do to promote health, fitness and fat loss, I did them. And I certainly OVER did them at first, but as time went on even small amounts doused my energy and bloated me up, along with unrelenting hunger and cravings.
You know how restrictive dieting for years and years stops working (I DO!)? Like pretty soon you’re gaining at least bloat at 900 calories because you’ve done it so long and your metabolism is so tanked and your body is so hungry and your hormones have gone on strike? And it gets worse and worse? I feel like that’s what my body did with exercise. I’d been piling it on and hitting it so hard for so long that, eventually (read: now) it just went full blown rogue when I even put any intensity in there. Almost like it said, “Oh, hell no not this again”. That could be adrenals, cortisol, whatever scientific term but, basically, its message is loud and clear so I’m heeding it.
Just because “they” say it’s the optimal way to exercise doesn’t mean my body agrees. It’s like n=1 again.


(Angelica Lopez) #15

That hunger is likely due to low leptin levels, which can affect athletes, body builders, and gym rats alike. I had this issue when I exercised a lot and that’s when I had to start doing carb refeeds. I personally did “dirty” refeeds meaning I indulged in junk food carbs instead of healthy ones. I started with one cheat meal that month, then when I made progress after returning to ketosis, I did one meal every 2 weeks, then every week. I got so lean I had to start doing refeeds for an entire day, not just one meal. Then in the end, I moved on to 2 full days of carb loading. This worked amazingly for me. I ended up losing much more stubborn weight that hadn’t come off during my prior 3 years on keto. Just beware, if you cannot get back on the wagon after a refeed then you are not ready for them. But they will replenish your leptin levels which should help with the excessive hunger and cause further fat loss.


#16

I have always suspected I have some sort of leptin resistance. I never seem to get that full feeling, even after 900 calories in my 5’2", 113lb body. It’s crazy. Keto has actually helped with this, and it’s the primary reason I started (and digestion which got immediately better). Obviously, I"m not here to lose weight but I don’t want to be the person who’s shaking-starving every time a meal is 10 minutes late. Sheesh. And then I’d plow through food at an alarming rate and quantity and I swear when I was in a restaurant with other people they’d just look at me like “Holy SH&*” Ha

Your method sounds like Carb Nite Solution which I did for years and worked well for me, too. I can totally get back on the wagon and like to after a refeed.


(Angelica Lopez) #17

You sound just like me, except I’m 5’2 89 lbs. The refeeds for me are only temporary when it came to appetite control because of my cardio and weight training routine. When I did do refeeds I literally inhaled food and could eat a ridiculous amount and not feel full. One refeed was nearly 7,000 calories of mostly carbs and sugar, and I lost 5 lbs later that week once I went back on keto and AFTER I dropped the water weight. I had the best of both worlds, remain skinny and in shape while eating whatever I wanted each week.


#18

Have you read the Carb Nite Solution? It’s a good read and the author is very intelligent


#19

And how do you know if you have low leptin?


(Angelica Lopez) #20

I haven’t read it. Maybe I will, but usually when what I’m doing works so well, I just stick to it. Being overly hungry can indicate leptin levels are low. And I know for me, extreme weakness is another sign. I’m usually very energetic while on keto, so it’s very obvious when my energy changes that there’s something off. I remember one time I couldn’t even walk up a few stairs, I felt great but my energy was at a negative 500 lol. Another time I went to kneel down to pick something up from the floor and I could not get back up. It took some time. That’s when I know I need a pretty big refeed. This didn’t start happening until I was really lean, which is typically how it goes, body builders especially will tell you that. But for me, I’ve learned to recognize the signs so I just know.