Too Many Issues on Keto (Thinking about quitting)

(Blake) #1

Hey everyone, crazy first post, but I’ve been lurking the forums for a bit now and decided I’d share the issues that I’ve had on keto to get any input.

For backstory, I’ve been doing keto off and on for about 6 months (I guess you could call it CKD) but I’m the type of person who gets into ketosis VERY easily - like I can eat 80-90 grams of carbs at breakfast, workout, and I’m in ketosis in the evening. Even after a full day of eating carbs, I’m usually in ketosis the next morning anyway (measured by blood ketones). I feel like I’ve run the full gamut of keto side effects though and have tried everything from strict to CKD to TKD.

Headaches
I got horrible headaches at the beginning like many people do. Electrolytes somewhat fixed the issue and they went away with time, so this wasn’t a lasting side effect.

Light headedness
This side effect NEVER went away. No matter how much electrolyte supplements I took, how much I salted my food, drank pickle juice, or anything…I get light headed through exertion. I climb up a single flight of stairs in my house and I’m about to pass out. I do a set of squats and I’m about to pass out. I deadlift any more than 225 and I’m about to pass out. It seems that nothing has been able to fix this issue except for carbs (enough to keep me out of ketosis). My water intake is very good, electrolytes and sodium are adequate, but my body still does not hold onto water and I think my blood pressure can’t stabilize properly.

Sky High Heart Rate
Usually related to the light headedness…My heart rate jumps dramatically with very little effort. It rose by 20-30bpm at rest, and it never stabilizes during workouts. I walk up a flight of stairs and my HR is easily 120. I fast walk and it’s up to 140. I try to “run” at a lowly pace of 12:30 min/mile and its in the 160-170 range. This is in stark contrast to before keto where my resting HR was easily 40-55, and I could run at a pace of 8:00/mile before it got up to the 160-170 range, so it’s not an out of shape problem. Front loading sodium helps only marginally, other electrolytes and magnesium supplements do practically nothing as well. Taking creatine to retain more water helped lower my workout HR by maybe 10bpm, but after about 20 minutes the effect seems to wear off and my HR is shooting up again.

Insomnia
What was interesting is that at first I slept really really well on keto. I could be out by 9:00pm and sleep a full night and wake up ready to go and recovered. After a few months, it gradually started to deteriorate where I woke up early after only 6-7 hours of sleep. Then got to the point where I felt very restless and had a hard time staying asleep at all. I’ve worn a Suunto watch a few times to track my sleep and it estimates a mere 5-6 hours of sleep at best on these types of nights - last night it was less than 5 hours.
I also got to the point where I couldn’t really fall asleep either. I’d feel like I just drank a cup of coffee and it’s 10pm, but I haven’t had caffeine since the morning. I can’t buy the whole “need less sleep” argument considering that my mental and physical performance have been suffering over time with the diminished sleep. Taking melatonin does help, but I feel like if my diet requires me to take supplements to sleep, then why is it healthy for me in the long run?
The funny thing is that when I up the carbs, I sleep amazingly and throughout the entire night.

Lack of motivation
My mental motivation has also gone downhill to say the least. To the point to where I’m having trouble keeping up with wanting to do my podcast, write articles, and even perform well at work. While I generally have pretty good cognitive clarity on keto, I just don’t feel motivated to do much. Adding carbs to the point of kicking myself out of ketosis helps pretty dramatically and I have the feeling that I want to get things done again.

This entire culmination of issues has really got me rethinking keto. It seems that my body just can’t hold enough water for hydration without more carbs which is causing the HR and light headedness issues, which are immediately corrected upon adding in enough carbs to get me out of ketosis for just 2-3 days. The sleep and motivation issues are really bothering me as well.

I have to say that I’ve had no issues sticking to keto and I generally don’t crave sugar anymore. I have verified many times through testing blood ketones that I’m in ketosis pretty much all of the time (obviously except for consuming high amounts of carbs). To me, this was not a weight loss diet as I remain pretty lean regardless of what diet I eat so long as I keep my calories in check. I originally tried keto to help clear my skin of acne, which it generally does a wonderful job at, but I’ve began to notice that my skin stays clear as long as my blood sugar doesn’t spike excessively and I avoid inflammatory foods. I also did it because a blood test showed my A1C to be a little higher than I’d like at 5.4, and EAG of about 100. I’m not really putting much stock in the accuracy of this blood test because my glucose when checked by a high end meter hardly ever stays this high for long.
I’m wondering if this could be blood sugar related as well. My blood sugar tends to be VERY low on keto, but the presence of ketones keeps me from feeling hypoglycemic. We’re talking fasting glucose of 57-78 usually, and no more than about 95 after meals. Crazy thing is that with the reintroduction of carbs, it never really spikes above 110 an hour or so after meals, but I feel much better.

I’m beginning to wonder if keto really is for me or not. I workout quite a bit and can get away with higher amounts of carbs than many people and stay in or be back in ketosis very quickly. However, it seems that my problems are only eliminated by the reintroduction of carbs for a few days where I’m completely out of ketosis.

Any input?

(Robert C) #2

It seems like you are thinking that carb cycling is keto.

My worry, based on what you wrote, is that you are going in and out of ketosis but never actually becoming truly fat adapted (under 20 grams of carbs for several months).

Sort of giving yourself keto flu over and over.

Before giving up - I would attempt to become truly fat adapted - as near as you can to zero carbs for months. Then see how you feel.

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #3

Just from reading what you have written I don’t think you have ever become fat adapted, a process that can take anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months(I have heard). This state isn’t something you just switch into once you are in Ketosis.

It is a state where your body is accustomed to using fat for energy. When you are in this state most of the problems you list will disappear.

(Allie) #4

You’re constantly kicking yourself out of ketosis with ridiculously high levels of carbs so your body has no time to even start adapting, and doesn’t even get properly into ketosis, so you’re in a constant state of so called keto flu.

If you want to go CKD that’s your choice, but you HAVE to wait until you’re properly fat adapted if you have any chance of getting the benefits of keto.

(Door Girl) #5

This sounds like me on prior lower carb diets. I was low enough to see some benefits, but when I was doing well it was really tenuous. I could go from great energy, etc to being completely zapped with a very slight difference in carb consumption (type and/or quantity).

After going intense keto with net carbs <20g and very limited processed foods I am now Superwoman. I was so close before, eating carb numbers similar to you, but I could go from great to terrible at the drop of a hat. It took me a couple days to adapt to this new target with intensive tracking, and now (2 months in) I seem to be able to well if I am careful in my choices but not necessarily obsessive about tracking.

Keeping carbs at, below, or around 20g is worlds different from 80-90g a day. If you want to really give yourself a shot at keto, commit to a month or two or six of this lower target.

I get that your current process isn’t working for you. But don’t give up on keto until you give a good effort at a more classic set of targets.

(Blake) #6

I gave myself a proper 3-4 months of strict keto before cycling in any considerable amounts of carbs. I will say that my energy levels on keto are fine, that’s not the issue. These are issues that got progressively worse during those initial months, which is the opposite of the intended “fat adaptation” period where your issues are supposed to get better. I have no idea what biological mechanism would underlie inefficient fat metabolism as the reason why I’m having blood pressure, HR and sleep issues - as those seem to be much more related to hydration and hormones.

I realize some people take up to a year to really “adapt” to the diet, but I guess I’m having trouble reconciling that I’ll have to essentially give up running and heavy lifting for such a long period of time since I suffer so many side effects.

I know it’s common when people have issues to just say “you’re not fat adapted enough” or “you’re not doing it right.” Yes, I did keto right. Yes, I was measurably in ketosis for MONTHS when tested by blood regularly. Yes, I’m eating enough calories as I’ve gained muscle. Yes, I track in cronometer and have weighed my food and didn’t exceed 50 grams of net carbs per day (mostly from liver, oysters, yogurt, avocado). Yes, I’m eating enough fat (150-200 grams per day - I burn a lot of calories). Yes, I obsessively salt my food and take electrolytes and track my minerals.

The thing here is, if my body is supposed to adapt over time, then why did the issues get worse over those initial strict keto months with the exception of not having headaches? I am an athlete, not sedentary. That is my big thing. I’m not the average Joe go to the gym and skirt around for 2 hours taking 10 minute breaks between sets and having a doughy physique. I race OCR and do vigorous calisthenics and gymnastics. I love keto, but if sacrificing my workouts for up to a year or longer is what it’s going to take for me to “adapt” then I’m not sure I can really do that.

(Door Girl) #7

Blake, all that info wasn’t obvious in your first post. I’ll apologize for all the assumptions I made from that first post.

Since you already have all the basics in, have you played around to see if you don’t do well with some particular food groups like dairy?

I don’t have the Phinney and Volek book for athletes yet, but maybe that could help you out?

Best of luck! I’m a newbie, so you are past any other advice I’m able to offer. :slight_smile:

(PSackmann) #8

If I were you, I’d check out the Running posts https://www.ketogenicforums.com/c/exercise/running

I know there are quite a few long-distance runners who are keto here, they should be able to help you out with your questions.

(Blake) #9

No problem!

I actually do exceptionally well on dairy as long as it’s grass fed, preferably raw (I get raw milk from a local farm and make my own yogurt from it - it has never kicked me out of ketosis, also I get ghee and butter from them as well).

The only “keto” foods I don’t tolerate well are raw vegetables like salad or excessive high omega-6 nuts. I’m more sensitive to fruits, but obviously they are not typically keto friendly, same thing with most grains except rice.

The carbs that I’ve cycled in were simply sweet potatoes and white rice, maybe some blueberries which I tolerate just fine. To the experimentation with carbs, I’ve just found that eliminating ketosis for 2-3 days completely reverses the issues and my HR stabilizes during cardio, I no longer get lightheaded, and I sleep just fine. I also put on 2-3lbs of water weight in those 2-3 days of carb cycling - so it feels like my MAIN issue is with water retention. No amount of electrolytes or salt has gotten rid of the issues like carbs did, and with my rock bottom BG levels on keto…it seems I like the insulin and glycogen helps my body A LOT with retaining enough water to stabilize my blood pressure and HR.

I can give a more CKD approach a shot…maybe 5-6 days keto and 1-2 days of carb loading. However, I’ve also noticed that after carb loading, the day I go back to keto my sleep starts to suck again. I’m between a rock and a hard place with this one.

#10

Everything you’ve said points to never giving this way of eating time to work. ESPECIALLY when it comes to lifting, most people take 3mo or so to start feeling the benefits of being fat adapted, coming and going for 6mo more or less makes it impossible to adapt and feel right. Our muscles take even longer to adapt. CKD is flawed at every level. When you carb “load” your liver and muscle glycogen reload, then you spill over and the negatives begin. You will take around 2 days to deplete liver glycogen, and 1-2 real good lifting sessions before muscle glycogen is gone regardless of liver levels, once your muscles get it THEY use it. In the end you’ll wind up getting the benefits of keto for 2 maybe 3 days out of 7, and seems you’re getting the downsides more than the up. Simply seeing the presence of ketones doesn’t mean your pulling off keto correctly. TKD can work for some people, especially those with faster metabolisms. But the fact you want to eat the floor when doing your squats and deads are a pretty good indicator that you didn’t make it to that point.

I’d personally throw the idea of CKD out, if you want to stay keto and want to kinda cheat the adaption phase I’d think about where the problems are. If it’s overall energy levels meaning as a whole, then TKD will help for a while, but if your energy levels are fine but your MUSCLE energy isn’t there then there are carb supplements like Carb10 that allow you to replenish muscle glycogen without screwing with your blood sugar or insulin levels. You gotta dump the yogurt made from milk, being raw doesn’t change that it’s milk. Milk is milk and not keto friendly, especially in your situation. Again, just being able to see ketones in your blood because you can make them again before burning off what was in circulation doesn’t mean you’re not setting yourself back in the mean time.

#11

When you say you take adequate amounts of electrolytes, which electrolytes are you taking? How much total of potassium, magnesium and salt are you getting daily?

The reason I ask is that a lot of your symptoms (HR and bp) sound very similar to what I went through around the 4 month point. When I increased my magnesium to 500 those symptoms went away after a few days. I now make sure I get 600 mg of magnesium supplementing with Magnesium Bisglycinate or Malate. Magnesium Oxide is only around 4% absorb-able, so really doesn’t count toward electrolyte consumption.

Just thought I’d mention this in case it helps.

#12

Maybe I missed it but how old are you? Height, weight, goal, progress. Fitness level (sounds high). Body fat pct? Etc.

Your body fat pct might be low and this regimen is counterproductive. No, Keto is not for everyone.

(Alex) #13

keep your net carbs under 20 GRAMS daily for 2+ months strict, without any carb crycling days, and then tell us how you feel. no wonder you feel like garbage when you’re eating up to 50g net carbs daily, and apparently closer to 100 on certain days, while also incorporating high fat and protein and (presumably) a lot of salt. too many carbs in conjunction with everything else!