This BG stuff is p/ssing me off!

#1

So I’ve been eating clean, strict keto for a month now (my second go round after falling out of ketosis for a month). I’ve had two recent blood sugar crashes and really couldn’t figure out why (posted about it last week) and pretty much chalked it up to my body getting readjusted to this way of eating. Past week has been pretty incident-free (thank God) but now I’m really confused, fed up, angry, scared by this morning.

Woke up feeling great, energetic, clear-headed. About 3 hours later I started feeling really hungry. Usually I can fend that off with a big chug of water and a cup of coffee. Didn’t work, still hungry. Not wanting to have a crash I decided to nip it in the bud and I ingested a handful of macadamia nuts and a few teaspoons of coconut oil. Kept getting worse. Went and ingested about a teaspoon of salt. No help. Came very close to fainting, very anxious, etc. Had a panic attack so popped a mild tranquilizer. Since I was by now REALLY close to fainting (I never have but this was close) I grabbed a hard candy and sucked on that. Now, an hour later, things are settling down a bit (tranquilizer? candy?) so that at least I’m back at my desk instead of hiding in the ladies room, but now I’m ravenous again.

This never happened to me when I’ve done keto before. I check my BG levels, the readings are always in normal range. I’m getting sufficient electrolytes. I’m fed up - can’t live with never knowing when this is going to take over. Had I been driving there would have been a serious problem. I don’t know if I need to give it more time until I’m fat adapted (this didn’t happen when I used to eat keto) or if strict keto is just not agreeing with my body and I’m one of those that needs more than 20g of carbs.

Oh, what I ate last night was bacon and eggs for dinner, and then an hour later I had a keto fat bomb with coconut oil, peanut butter powder, coconut flakes (unsweetened) cocoa and Swerve.

Don’t want to throw in the towel because I love all the benefits of this WOE, but I can’t keep having this happen. So busy and so many people needing me at the office today and I feel like I’m in a fog and needing to hide.
Sue

(Alec) #2

Sue
That sounds bad, and you do need to find a fix.

My advice is more salt and electrolytes, and when you are hungry don’t try to put it off: eat fat. Bring a bucketload of cold bacon to work and if you are hungry, eat!! And when you are chugging water, get a large pinch of salt and eat it!! And then do it again!

Hunger is your body telling you it needs something: you need to find out what, and eat it! I would say it is not “carbs” but something like just more calories or a specific mineral.

Have you tried the ketoade recipe? Or bone broth? Those usually help in these circumstances.

Hope you find a fix.
Cheers
Alec

#3

Thanks, Alec… you’re right - this crap has to stop. I do have bone broth at the office in individual containers but forgot all about that.

And no, I’ve never made Keto-Aid but I will look into it.
Thanks. I am so angry and irritable and tired - sure sounds like a BG thing, doesn’t it?
Sue

(Alec) #4

Your symptoms sound like electrolyte imbalance to me. You said you tested your BG and it was normal? If you are convinced it is blood glucose, then it means you are not fat adapted, and you are suffering from keto flu.

But my bet is electrolytes.

(Bunny) #5

If your BG is looking normal and the potassium, sodium and magnesium intake is adequate, try this (below), just to make sure it is not a BP issue and if so, that would give you more information about what the causes might be? Most likely still adapting and a little adrenal fatigue!

I went through that same thing myself; that feeling like your going to pass out or faint feeling your describing, it is really strange!

2. Orthostatic Hypotension Test:

All you need for this one is a blood pressure cuff. Lie down for 5 minutes and then take your blood pressure and make note of it (especially the systolic – top number). Then stand up and take your blood pressure again immediately.

The systolic pressure should naturally rise about 10 mm/hg when you go from sitting to standing. If the systolic pressure remained the same or it decreased, there is a chance you have adrenal fatigue. When we stand, epinephrine is normally secreted to increase the blood pressure to overcome gravity and pump blood towards the heart. …More

And have a peek at these videos:

  1. Intermittent Fasting & Hypoglycemia

  2. The #1 Food that Fixes Hypoglycemia

  3. POTS - Dr. Jockers

(icky) #6

So sorry to hear you’re struggling with this Sue!

What on earth is going on, huh?

#7

Have you checked your blood glucose during an episode? When I feel off, I check, because I’m prone to hypoglycemia, and just knowing that’s not the problem keeps me away from gobbling sugar like I normally would when I’m hypoglycemic. If my BG is normal, I know to look elsewhere for the problem. BP is a possibility, and of course electrolytes. It’s got to be very frustrating.

#8

Really not feeling that it’s electrolytes, but I respect and value your thoughts and opinions and will recalculate how much salt, potassium and magnesium I’m getting daily.

I did take my blood pressure several times while this was happening and it’s always “perfect”. Although a week ago I had very LOW blood pressure that I had a hard time getting back up again - chalked that up to my body adapting to keto.

I will try the “lying down and then standing up” test tonight… at the office they might think I’m really strange if I hit the floor in the middle of the office. :slight_smile:
Thanks.
Sue

(Ron) #9

This might suggest low sodium. I dealt with similar issues in the beginning and even though I have always been an above average salt consumer (pre-keto), I was in awe of the amount of salt salt salt that I needed in the beginning of my keto journey. It has settled down as I continue to travel this path but it was quite an intro in the beginning.

#10

What is the simple “in layman’s terms” reason for needing SO MUCH salt while in keto? I’m done losing all my water weight, I drink plenty of water and urinate what I’d considered a normal amount (unlike in the beginning when I was losing so much water). Do people on keto have to continue heavily salting even once they’re fat adapted or is this just advice for beginners?
Sue

(Ron) #11

Because you no longer store as much fluid in your body as you used to the body does not have reserves to draw from for sodium. Also because on a lc/hf diet you are expelling more salt than a high carb diet.
Phinney and Volek talk about it here.

(icky) #12

I am utterly confused and stumped about this too.

I am normal weight - not on Keto to lose weight.

I let myself be convinced that Keto meant LOTS AND LOTS of salt and ended up with massive symptoms and going to an emergency Dr’s practice, doing an ECG with a weird result and too much sodium and magnesium in my blood work.

I don’t understand the salt thing (from a rational/ logical/ intellectual point of view).

I understand that if someone is very overweight and losing a lot of water, there would be some electrolyte/ salt issues.

Also, if there’s huge weight loss and body recomposition, I guess there could be “something” going on there re electrolytes and salt that I’m not aware of.

But I do not understand why the Keto diet AS SUCH (for a slim person) expells so much salt and hence needs so much salt?

I would be so grateful if I could understand this better!

I’ve been doing long EFs (3 weeks) 3 to 4 times per year, so am very used to being in Ketosis for long-ish streches of time, but have never experienced any salt issues or increased salt requirements there.

I’m just totally confused!

#13

Hi Sue,
I do understand your frustration! I feel fantastic with one exception; dizzy/lighthead feelings when getting up from bending over or taking very quick walks. Now, my GP (I’m in the UK) has kindly checked my sodium, magnesium and potassium levels (all normal), plus my BP (all good over period of 2 weeks). Now referred me to neuro clinic once I return from holiday in 2 weeks time as doesn’t know what else.

My brother happens to be a doctor and he does low carb 2-3 days/week ( I know, plse don’t shout: I’m sharing personal info!). I broke our unwritten rule and asked for help and he told me to drink triple the amount of water (hydration is key) . I’ve followed his advice ('cos I trust him!) and in the last week I’ve experienced only one bad episode and much reduced “less significant” episodes. So ??? I love gardening and it was a major problem for me previously for obvious reasons.

The clinic I have to attend by referral from my GP is called “the funny turns clinic” which I think is hilarious (sorry, my sense of humour). I’ve never felt better with this one exception. I hope this helps you. Good luck! Ali :smile:

(icky) #14

So in the video it says something about kidneys specifically expelling salt during Keto… I will research this.

But the video also says during Keto you should eat MODERATE salt, NOT HIGH salt.

???

(Ron) #15

Please remember that sodium requirements are also an n=1 think as well.
Being a veteran Keto’er you have probably heard this already but if not it is worth listening to.

(icky) #16

I’ve listened to this podcast and found it very interesting.

But I still don’t understand the keto = tons of salt link.

And my n=1 experience was that I need the same, normal amount of salt I’ve always used.

I’ve never tried to restrict salt, I don’t think negatively of salt, but Keto is the first time I’ve come across “purposely eating heaps of salt”.

When I tried it, I came up with tachycardia and nearling keeling over really badly, as I tried to run 50 metres to get to the bus on time.

I just don’t understand it.

(icky) #17

I just read on ruled.me that Keto “has a diuretic effect” and that you need to pee more.

I don’t need to pee more, tho.

There seemed to be some slight indication that this diuretic effect only happened in the initial fat adaption stage - but I may have misread that…?

(Ron) #18

Not really scientific but might help explain salt. The SAD diet might come into play.

(Edith) #19

I was wondering… are you sure you are in ketosis? Have you checked with the urine sticks or your blood ketones? Maybe you are in low carb purgatory and you are not in ketosis so your brain is not getting enough glucose?

(icky) #20

So this article says

Luckily, if in the context of a low carbohydrate diet you give the subject/patient a total of 5 grams of sodium per day (for example 2-3 grams on their food and 2 grams as broth/bouillon), none of these bad things happen.

I’m pretty sure that’s approx what I get. 2-3 grams in my food (salty cheese, etc) plus 2 grams that I put in/ on my meals.

But others here are eating copious amounts of cheese and bacon and still adding huge amounts of salt on top of that.

The link also points out that if your salt - potassium ratio gets out of balance, then by having too much of one, you have to start supplementing the other.

Which is precisely what I see people doing here - having huge amounts of salt and supplementing lots of magnesium.

While this may work and everyone’s free to do their n=1 it just makes no “sense” to me from a scientific point of view.