THINK TANK for helping friends/family see the light

#42

You took what I wrote totally out of context. And to all those heavily active and confident obese people, I apologize! I don’t know many obese people like that myself. The ones I know are miserable, depressed, and afraid to let go of the comfort that makes them miserable. That is the “Dark and lazy” place.

#43

I do not know any obese people like that. I think most people who are overweight that I know and I know quite a few, try to exercise, try to lose weight. Some succeed only to gain it back. Absolutely insulin and ghrelin play a big part in that. As Dr. Fung says, all diets succeed and all diets fail. These same obese people are happy and successful with happy families and good jobs or careers no matter their weight. They are not miserable in any sense. They do not believe me or follow me but that is their choice. The two people who I want to make the diet change the most are both Tofi diabetics. Neither has ever had a BMI over 25 and I have known them for decades. They are told by their doctors it is ok to have some carbohydrates, that is why they are sick, not because they are eating too much

@Matamoros, best wishes. Do I understand correctly that you were diagnosed after being keto for 3 years? I keep reading how keto is supposed to help with cancer prevention. Do you have any thoughts on this?

#44

Saphire that is an excellent question. Keto helped shift weight when other diets would not. Keto/IF has appeared to youthen me in the past five years.
I believe that my drinking wine and champagne AND my age contributed to my cancer diagnosis. In fact I may have been successful in keeping it at bay due to Keto, IF and EF.
It is hard for me to believe that a woe which can reverse diabetes, shift weight and restore the vitality of many people would be a factor in any cancer.
Time, of course, will tell.

#45

I’m glad they’re happy, but our experiences are different. I never met a fat woman who didn’t lose weight and then rush out to buy nice clothes that didn’t look like tents, or talk about how well they felt, how pretty, how attractive etc Nope, the ones I know are miserable. Diets have failed them and they gave up.

#46

@Wishbone My apologies for not seeing the context you intended. But “totally” out of context? Lazy? Perhaps defeated and fearful. Perhaps willing to die in comfort than live a life chasing thin with inadequate methods and theories. You and I could probably agree on that.

There is a cognitive distortion that most people use frequently. Collecting evidence that proves one’s belief and blinding oneself to the evidence that disproves it. Everyone has done this. It is interesting to challenge a belief by collecting evidence to the contrary. If one is not attached to the belief one can see all kinds of things.

I have certainly seen misery and depression with obese persons. I have certainly seen misery and depression in lean/thin persons. I have experienced desiring comfort and pursuing it. I have certainly struggled with letting go of comfort that was fleeting. I think these are common experiences of humanity and obesity doesn’t corner the market on those. I very things you reference and attribute to a person being obese another person could reference and attribute it to being imperfect, too thin, too weak, not powerful enough.

I think I became a bit provoked by your references. Again, my apologies if I was unable to appreciate the context you intended.

(Tric Zyzyk) #47

As for discussing with friends and family that need Keto in their life…I tread that lightly. My immediate family just shake their heads and tell me that I am going to give them heart failure. I told one of them the other night while he was piling my beautifully cooked pork belly on a bagel with kilo slaw that it was not the port belly that would give him the HA, but the bagel. He laughed and then proceeded to eat.

My mother though is a different story. She and I had made a pact of sorts to loose weight in July of 2017. She had just undergone back surgery and honestly, I had a terrible time taking care of her because of her weight. Sadly, I weighed more. That was my realization. I live 6 hours away from her and once I stopped caring for her and returned home, I started to make a difference in me. On following visits, she saw the changes in me and saw the only change in her was the weight gain. She started listening to podcasts that I would send her from time to time. I am happy to say, she started keto this week. I pray she stays with it, but I know living by herself and having no support system will be difficult.

(Arlene) #48

If she can sit in a chair with a computer, send her links or information on numerous podcasts, videos, websites, etc. I love to knit while I listen to various interviews and videos. Very relaxing, enjoyable, and motivating.

#49

With ya there! Gotta hit different people from different angles though. Some people will pay attention to the facts their presented assuming there not miserable to sit through, others may be drawn in like I was with Atkins in the early 2000’s all it took was bacon, eggs, fried food and I loose weight? HERE I AM! No science needed I called it the “Dude Food diet” The rest came after the fact. I’ve found the most people that actually want to know what I’m doing in detail and how it works are the people that are around me all the time as my way has continued to work as all theirs have failed, and the people that don’t see me often and get amazed at how much I’ve changed. Seeing is believing, even for a skeptic unless their just beyond brainwashed, or a Doctor.

(Candy Lind) #50

She will have a support system if she comes here. My only support system is a husband who pays lip service, a friend who checks in occasionally (lives 1300 miles away), and this group. I’m doing better since I got here. :heart_eyes:

(Tric Zyzyk) #51

I have done that…she knits so I am hoping she stays with it. She knows it is the best thing for her.

(Adam Smith) #52

That’s my experience. The people in my life who need keto the most are the ones least likely to look for anything to address their issues or to question orthodoxy. They’ve accepted that they’re unhealthy and overweight, doomed to progressive diabetes, and just don’t seem to care to look any further for solutions. The doctor says one thing, and they’re not going to think for themselves beyond that.

One very disturbing pattern is that some of them have zero faith in the medical research community. They’ve spent the last 30 years seeing study after study that says that one thing or another is the solution or the problem and they never worked. My wife, who is no stranger to physiology thanks to her degree in Animal & Poultry Science (with a focus on beef production), stalwartly believes that people vary too much and that we literally cannot know the what, why, and how of human metabolism. That’s what decades of bad science will do to people - destroy their faith in science.

(Karen Mac) #53

Find a way to show (especially) the men in your life this video. Bob Briggs has a very non-threatening, everyman way of explaining LCHF:

Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off
For T2D, and especially the women in your life I’d show them this:

Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines | Sarah Hallberg | TEDxPurdueU

These are exactly the two videos that were recommended to me when I expressed an interest in the keto diet. I was sold immediately!

(Chris) #54

Everything Ive ever done has needed to be out of spite. Eat Keto, lose weight, improve your health and maybe the ones you care about will see that its legit and join. Do not push anything

(Cywgdave) #55

I’ve played episodes of the 2Keto dudes on longish drives with other folks. Usually preface it with some comment along the lines of “Hey, there’s this podcast I listen to and there’s a new episode out, you mind if I put it on?” So far I’ve got one friend who’s down about 15-20 lbs but not really keto, just ditched most of the carbs. Another one however is down 27lbs, no longer considered pre-diabetic (he was for nearly 10 years), has more than halved his BP meds and tells me 2 things, “I feel better than I have in years, I didn’t realize I even felt bad”, and “I’m never going back to the way I ate before”. He also mentioned that he pretty much never gets acid reflux anymore, prior it was several times a month.

I have others that I am trying to figure out how to reach, it is slow going but anything we do makes things better. I’m going to keep doing what I can.

(Bunny) #56

One idea would be to compile long-term research, supporting Doctors and researchers (reversal of diabetes, cancer etc. stats) and confront the American Medical Associations (AMA) House of Delegates to get a national and possibly an international consensus vote on the efficacy of the LCHF Ketogenic Diet drafting acceptable guidelines for what constitutes a safe LCHF diet.

It can be done!

#57

In my experience, you will not ever convince someone by trying to force them to walk your path. When someone doesn’t ask and is told how they should be living their life, people get defensive and shut down. Being a role model is like planting seeds. Whenever someone is ready for that road in their life journey, they will water those seeds you planted long ago. Unfortunately, watching them walk the train tracks when the train is coming is the hardest part because everyone wants to save their family from suffering…the thing is, we can’t. It isn’t your life to live; it’s theirs. All you have is your success and the hope they come around sooner rather than later. The upside is, once they are open and ready, they will ask and you will be a wealth of information and a great support system for them. You will also get to experience their successes with them which makes it very rewarding for both parties.

(Jeannie Oliver) #58

I find living alone actually helps me stick with keto, compared to some people I know who live with a partner who continues to buy bread, chips and high-carb desserts and bring them home.

(Bunny) #59

I was actually commenting on another post but it was moved or someth’n so my response was kinda off subject sorry bout dat!

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #60

Way way back in the way back machine, I was living in Los Angeles, and I went out to dinner with a good friend from high school who was completing med school at USC. She recommended that I look into the Atkins Diet, as it was mostly stuff I ate anyway. It turns out it was a flip comment, but it’s been a 16 year on and off journey to my current keto-adjacent WOE. Sadly, more off than on.

(charlie3) #61

The best answer has been given several times. Be a living example of what can be accomplished and people will ask you. I work in a custom build shop where we make lines of machines for auto factories. It iis a big floor with a lot of guys. I’ve been around longer than most of them and am probably the oldest guy in the building (69). At the start of my keto/exercise program a couple months ago I was not “over weight” but there was room for improvement and I’m not done. The lifting has improved my posture, added shape to my muscles and put a spring in my step. The cardio has put color in my face and made me more alert and energetic. Eating keto ( minus 450 calories a day) has narrowed my waist line. My abs are flat and backside smaller. In a couple of months I’ll have to replace my 34" blue jeans for 31" or 32". Almost everybody, except for me, has a noticable gut. It’s become a social norm I didn’t really notice before. The way things are headed I’ll be 69 from the neck up and 29 from the neck down. That speaks louder than any sales pitch.