The Party

(Marianne) #1

Went to a party on Sunday. I sat next to my gf from high school (46 years ago). Both of us have fought out weight our whole lives (me up until five years ago). She was telling me that she just rejoined WW for the umpteenth time (like I also used to do). That program uses the “points” system.

There were three tables of food and snacks, all beautifully displayed. No judgment but she had a big selection of “food” and then two pieces of cake with an inch of frosting and proceeded to tell me after eating the cake that she had just killed all her extra “points” for the week.

Honestly, it is just so sad to me. My friends know I have done keto for five years. Other than initially inquiring, they never ask me about it. They think I’m crazy. Our other high school gf who was there is morbidly obese and has T2D, as does her 30-something daughter and son. If I hadn’t found this program, I’d probably be in the same state.

Lastly, and not for nothin’, but WW is expensive!!!

(Geoffrey) #2

It’s sad but all we can do is be an example and be ready to help someone if they come to you. We just can’t interfere in their lives unless invited.

(Allie) #3

We can only fix ourselves, as sad as that often is.

(KM) #4

This may be one of the worst aspects of WW. Tell an addict they have to limit their addiction consumption to x amount per week ( which already frames the behavior as benign) but they can gorge it all in fifteen minutes if they “choose”? Recipe for disaster, pun intended.

I agree with other threads; the near deification of a “plant based diet” makes us not only diet outliers but morally suspect - I have a feeling quite a few people, even friends, steer clear of keto like they’d steer clear of an orgy - sounds tempting so satan get thee behind me! :rofl:

#5

I don’t say you are wrong, I have no idea about that (but it must be true in many cases where people seriously restrict their consumption of some pretty good food. it’s still so super weird to me that many people eats low-fat. it’s not how a normal, hedonistic, not caring about health average person eats. and there are all the people who see no problem with fatty food)… But can’t a “normal” eater eat anything keto? I know some people choose not to but many people are hedonists, eating WAAAAAAY worse than a proper keto food… :thinking:
And I always read it’s the opposite of tempting to give up bread and potatoes and cake (the latter is so weird, keto cake tastes so much better if you ask me - one probably need to bake it themselves, though. but it’s super easy, I have 2 minutes cakes - , not like I like cake nowadays, I ate super much on keto and managed to get bored of it despite I am not prone to that. I could never get bored of bread, for example… bread is my problem item lately :frowning: even though I can bake really good very low-carb bread if I want to… but I digress)…

The case mentioned in the first comment… Yep, it’s tragic. At least it’s not the "all carbs you can eat in 1 hour even day, that is even much worse as a skilled, motivated one can go beyond almost any points there, easily…
I don’t know if it works for anyone. Maybe there is some unique personality where the occasional splurge combined with the possibility of eating the wrong (according the diet, no idea how WW works) food ANY time… I can find something in me that likes that freedom, I actually have this just without points, I am allowed to eat anything I fancy, any time, actually. I am a hedonist and it’s important for me. BUT I am working on a good life long woe since ages. My basic attitude is very different from my distant past (when I lacked knowledge so, so much… my body helped with some basics but not knowing what low-carb is like, it didn’t know yet it wants that. it was too healthy and sturdy to feel pretty fine on high-carb) and I need it. There are so many things are against us when we try to do keto long term (especially if we still like the carby food), at least our basic attitude should be right! And using up points on joy and feeding our carby habits and desires is probably not the right method. But each to their own I suppose. I really have no moral high horse here with my wild days (but I don’t want to have them, they just happen. it is an important difference).
I only agree with the part where one doesn’t restrict themselves too much. Being strict works for some people and a very bad idea for others. Actually, feeling the need to spend all the points in a party hints at the one in question not enjoying the stricter days. I as a hedonist have problems with that though I suspect it can’t be helped for many people… And who knows, anyway?

I am pretty much against added sugar, though. Expect honey, honey is wonderful like fruits despite not being healthy for me due to the sugar. I merely CAN’T be against such glorious items and probably never will be. It doesn’t mean I need to eat them (as long they don’t enter my house, it’s not so hard to do with honey but my SO needs fruits every day). I just have fond feelings about them. By the way, it’s not necessary a bad idea, to get nice feelings from food without eating it. I totally use it in my own case, it helps.

(icky) #6

This was on CNN recently… I didn’t bother listening to it… At first I thought “Oh cool, they’re saying they got it wrong” but then it seems like they’re saying that you need to use weightloss drugs like Wegovy and that sounded like they’re still getting it wrong… Sigh…

(Allie) #7

Yeah apparently WW are now working with big pharma… heard it on a Mind Pump podcast the other day.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #8

I always find it ironic that cutting carbohydrate–or worse, going carnivore–is “extreme,” because we’re restricting or eliminating “an entire food group,” whereas eliminating all meat from one’s diet is not extreme in the least. I guess meat is not a food group? :confused:

#9

You have a point, @PaulL… It’s 3 food groups to me, meat, eggs and dairy… All seems pretty normal and nutritious for a human in my eyes… On carnivore, we cut off several food groups but why would it be important? I never understood this. Our diet should be good and enough for us, it doesn’t matter if there are other potential items with good things, if those are unnecessary, I can skip them.

#10

Personally, I think if people really believed a diet would work for them, they would drink eye of newt (joke! not suggesting) if it would get them back into their prom dress! About two weeks ago we were out with friends, one of them was taking an OTC supplement that was helping them lose weight. You should have seen the other people at the table asking questions and considering ordering it

I tried WW on 3 or 4 occasions, last one about 20 years ago or more. It is as you said, telling an addict to focus on food. The point system made me focus on food more, rather than less.

(KM) #11

Ok, I think where I was going was more that saying the words Plant Based is virtue signalling. The tempting thing is not a ketogenic diet per se but the idea that meat is ok or even good for you.

#12

I am sure you are right.
And I must say eye of newt still sounds better (except when I think about poor animals) than taking some supplement I can’t know enough as I am not a scientist… Not like I know how safe a newt eye is, of course but I rather would take my chances with an animal part if I must choose one :wink:
But I have a very fixed belief that NOTHING can help my fat-loss, only myself, eating and maybe exercising right. There are no miracle things for me and if some supplement truly could “help”, I would be wary about the huge impact it does to my own body, lying to it and messing with my functions. No thanks.

I don’t know what WW is but at least I have heard about it. My SO learned about its existence yesterday when I mentioned this topic :slight_smile: And we both are better with not knowing, according to what little I do know.

Yeah, that is a problem. With any diet, one needs to focus on food and it’s not good but can’t be helped. But it should be as normal and as little focus as possible. I always tell newbies that they just should stick to the simple basics first, not counting and overthinking and restricting super much when they don’t want to. Maybe the simple basics will bring success, at least partially and later it will be easier to add, subtract, change… Even if the end goal is lowering macros (I need to lower them all at the moment. not like I know them as I don’t track and can’t even remotely guess), we don’t need to track them. It’s enough if we use a good timing and food choices where they automatically become right.
I don’t know WW but I know some bad attitude of calorie counters. It was painful to see it sometimes. They respected their generated fixed numbers WAY too much. (I respect them not at all, that’s not right either but still feels better :D) This point system sounds similar, focusing on numbers too much.

My mind never could contain the thought that some people think it different… We are omnivores, other animals’ bodies are natural food for us… I was a vegetarian for multiple reasons but meat being bad or not natural food wasn’t one of them.

OK but still, almost every people eat meat. They already consider it okay, don’t they…? Or if not, they don’t care anyway…? So they still can eat their roasts… (If there is talk about tempting meat, I always envision a big nice shiny roast :D)

Though… I did meet people who ate meat but it was just an accent. I met someone on this very forum telling me I eat too much meat at once :smiley: So yes, some people have some weird ideas about meat eating I just can’t understand. I focus on macros (compared to my needs) more. If a meat on my plate is only 100g protein and 80g fat, it can’t be too much, it depends if it is. It sounds a very nice fat-loss plan this far, to me… :stuck_out_tongue:

(Marianne) #13

I’m sorry, but I think I would drink eye of newt if it would get me back in my prom dress! :laughing::rofl::hugs:

(Rebecca ) #14

Weight Watchers is using pharmaceuticals now!!! WOW…

(Jane) #15

I am a lifetime memeber of WW but reached goal weight (128) when I was 30 and they used the Exchange system. That system was much more balanced and strict and it worked for me when I was young. Week one allowed 2 bread exchanges of 40 cal each so it was certainly low carb, even if not keto. And corn, potatoes, etc were part of the bread category, not vegetable.

When they moved to the point system it never worked for me because I would use all my points on carbs (duh) and then be starving all the time. I had no idea how wrong-headed this was and would never work - for anyone. But if it works in the short term then it keeps people giving them their money.

Sad they sold out to pharma.

eta: I lost 8 lbs the first week which was mostly water, so even more proof their original plan was low carb.

#16

Yeah that is “no bread at all” to me… I can’t really stop after 400 or 800 kcal of bread, I realize this every time… 40 kcal must be microscopic. It could work for breaded meat for some though. Or a thin flatbread if one can stop at one…

These seem super strict. I preferred keto where I could eat whatever I wanted with my carbs. And days were separate. Though carnivore-ish is maybe even better with unlimited carbs and virtually no desire ever for plants… (I have my baking phases and they can be problematic.)
Now I may add my own extra not day based rules but they evolve with me. And they cost nothing.

But I think I wrote before, surely these things work for some people. I badly need a very, very individual and flexible diet so WW is probably wildly incompatible with me. I still know close to nothing about it but it doesn’t sound good.
I don’t starve anyway. If I am hungry, I eat. Whatever I feel I need. Points and macros and fat-loss be darned :slight_smile: Some of us can’t lose fat through force (and I rarely consider it a good idea for anyone). Maybe an outside one, even I lost fat when I was literally starving… And I wasn’t really hungry either, I would have needed food to trigger hunger to begin with :smiley: Sadly, I can’t stop eating for some days by my own will now. It would be effective and I would feel the best compared to the fat-loss.

(Marianne) #17

I remember going to WW when I was 15-16. That was fifty years ago. I don’t remember what the plan was then. Didn’t work for me because my teen years were so difficult and food was my only outlet. Got into my twenties and starvation and exercise were the only things that got me to my goal weight. Not sustainable.

(B Creighton) #18

Not only the memberships, but the cookbooks, the foods themselves, and yeah, now the drugs! Geesh. Oh, I forgot, and then there’s the probable gall bladder surgery you’re going to end up with on a low fat diet.

Poor people… I can’t imagine trying to do that the rest of my life, and feeling guilty for eating nutricious food. This CEO talked about stuff as “it’s not sustainable.” Well, if you ask me WW is not sustainable. Keto/low carb definitely is… if I’m hungry I can eat protein. I have to say I love it. It all feels so … NATURAL…

(KM) #19

https://www.candyboots.com/wwcards.html

Click toward the bottom for the “tour”.

#20

Why, there is some special fancy food? How strange. What’s wrong with normal food?
A law of Mrs. Murphy comes to mind, that hints at special diet food prices too - or maybe it’s the calorie density, whatever, I like Mrs. Murphy’s laws :smiley: (translation from Hungarian so not the original words but the meaning should be the same): “One can get fat eating diet food. It just costs much more.”

I would never pay any for fat-loss. I am supposed to spare money by eating less! :smiley: (My diet always was very nutritious so it’s not like I needed to change a cheap, low nutrition diet.)