The only thing that doesn't make sense to me

#21

Fat burning doesnt equal fat loss.

(Michael) #22

It does if you are tracking macros or fasting

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #23

I suspect there might be a use for exogenous ketones in therapeutic ketosis. So, you’re already super clean, but you have epilepsy or a sugar eating - ketone hating cancer, MAYBE, chasing extra ketones through exogenous supplements is worth your while. For folks curing T2DM or losing weight… no… And I wish they’d knock it off…

(Fred Buchanan) #24

I absolutely agree with LeCheffre…

I didn’t even use a Ketone test strip until I’d been doing this for over 65 days.

My main focus was maintaining the correct 70% / 25% / 5% split on a daily basis, while feeding my Keto properly.

I had MUCH better success when I came as close to my daily calorie maximums (-30% deficit was my norm), than when I tried to make my keto lifestyle into a “normal” 1200 maximum daily calorie “diet”.

I also did much better when I was within 5 grams of my recommended daily protein intake. The ruledme.com keto calculator stated I needed 123 grams of protein daily. I put as much effort into meeting this number as I did the 134 grams of fat it also recommended.

The closer I came to meeting these two numbers, without going over on my 25 daily carbs, the EASIER it was for me to lose weight.

Just my 2c, but stop worrying about ketone levels (other than to know you are in ketosis), breath monitors, or whatever… Get your food intake as close as you can to what you need daily, without exceptions. EVERY day I met my goals I lost weight.

(Karl) #25

If they make it matter, the more crap they can sell you to “reach your goals”. Keto’s a great lifestyle, but for some, it’s a business model.

(Karl) #26

Yeah, I’m fresh out of F’s to give there too. I still feel dirty for spending the money on a Ketonix a couple of years ago.

I don’t understand why some people work their way to fat adaptation, only to boat-anchor themselves to some numeric interpretation of their ketone levels. I think it’s insane.

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #27

I’m a data fiend, so I’m amazed I haven’t any F’s to give. But being in ketosis is not the goal for me. Losing fat while preserving and building LBM is the goal. If someone can suggest that there is a serious health benefit to blowing a 3 versus a 5 or a .3, then maybe I can chase a goal there… but until there’s anything but a big, arbitrary range (as St. Bikman of the Insulin said, there’s not really much difference between .3 and .5, yet .5 is nutritional ketosis and .3 is what? According to Bikman, Phinney actually agrees and .5 is arbitrary.

(Karl) #28

Yeah, I’m a “big data” engineer for a living (mainly via a product called ‘Splunk’, which still makes me giggle every time I say the word). I initially thought I’d be down with chasing those numbers - but after getting some wack readings I could never explain, I just gave up on it.

#29

While I do not worry about ketones since I am in a perpetual stall maybe I should.

I agree that exo ketones in the absence of a serious disease that is helped by ketones is not necessary and I have never bothered.

However, for those with IR I think the level of ketones ie below or above a certain threshold is a good proxy for your level of IR. I have heard more than one long term podcaster or professional (not talking about JM) mention that their ketones stay low because of IR no matter how well they comply with diet. Some seem to believe exercise will help this which is something I may try next.

While I do not have a blood meter (too cheap) I do have 2 cheap breathalyzers. One I got when I was still losing about 3 months in keto. It would show between .5 and .8 routinely. Then by September it would show .2 and finally nothing unless I was on day 3 of a fast. The other one which was a different brand confirmed this. I barely use either anymore. I maintain but I am not losing and my BMI is over 30 so there is room to lose. While I have not been tested for IR it would not shock me if it was high

(Fred Buchanan) #30

Again, in complete agreement with LeCheffre…

I’m a Statistical Analyst and SQL Database Administrator by trade. Numbers are my bread and butter, well bacon and butter now. :wink:

Other than being solidly in ketosis, I don’t give a rat’s a** about my ketone levels.

When I actually pee-tested for the 1st time, I looked at it, and its color was in the high range, not the highest, just in the range. I threw the strip in the trash, promptly forgot the number, and went back to what was important, eating right to lose weight…

Don’t miss the fat loss, while chasing ketones…

(Doug) #31

Saphire, that makes sense to me - insulin resistance preventing the body from burning fat, to some degree, so less ketones will be present. Yet I wonder about the ketone levels as a proxy for IR, since ketones can vary so much in the first place, at least so it seems to me. Agreed that exercise usually lowers IR, and keeping carbs low too (of course).

(Pete A) #32

This. It doesn’t have to be so involved!

#33

Yes in deficit, but my comment stands. “fat burning” is not “fat loss” We all “burn fat” at some point in the day…

(Alec) #34

I am with the “I don’t care about ketones” camp. I am usually a data fiend, but this is one area I don’t think the data helps. My view is “trust the process”: make sure I am below 20g (ish) carb, and I know the magic will happen.

What are the markers for the magic happening? How I feel, how much energy I have, and my loss of bodyfat. Simple as that.

(Pete A) #35

When I started Keto I was never near 20 carbs and the weight consistently fell off. I wasn’t hungry. My mood/focus improved dramatically. Transformative.

I bought strips they mostly said I was in the middle, give or take. Then I read so much about how when to do it, I need different circumstances etc and asked myself why even bother? Maybe if I wasn’t losing I’d dig that deep, but there are many ways to recognize your ketosis, and again with carb restriction, the rest will follow.

Unless one enjoys a feeling of control and wants to track more than just food or exercise I wouldn’t think twice about doing it ever again…

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #36

I can think of so many more useful variables to track in a quantified keto life.

Sunlight exposure, mood, various body measurements, vertical leap, grip strength, so many more.

(Chris) #37

Hey,
I just stumbled upon this type of eating and I feel like in missing something. If you or anyone could help that would be great! I just started fasting from 8pm to noon each day and having 2 meals per day. I’m using the my fitness pal app to keep an eye on my macros but I’m having a hard time getting carbs below 50g. It seems like even the "low carbs veggies still have enough to push me over 50. Any advice would help

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #38

Are you backing out the fiber? MFP uses the American convention of counting fiber in the carb count.

#39

Only place I’ve ever heard the “don’t chase ketones” is ketogains, and they ignore everything that’s not lifting related. Higher ketones can mean better energy, less inflammation, more focus, it CAN mean better weight loss, but those two aren’t tied together officially and many people make that assumption which they shouldn’t. It’s individual. Many people also supplement with exogenous ketones which are great for energy in the gym and for performance but forcing in ketones isn’t the same as your body MAKING more which should be more of the goal. I use them sometimes, but in the correct context.

(Chris) #40

Thanks for responding, I don’t think I’m doing that because not sure exactly what it means. Are you saying that I should subtract fibre intake from carbs? Does the app not do this for me?
Thanks again