The Low Stomach Acid Rabbit Hole

(Mel Day) #1

I’ve recently stumbled on what is proving to be a game changer for me: Low Stomach Acid. Paradoxically, INCREASING my stomach acid immediately stopped my heartburn and reflux! Holy Mackerel, Batman!!

The next surprise: high fat intake no longer leads to disaster-pants. AND eating extra cabbage no longer causes (TMI) noxious fumes, making my Ketogenic world brighter still!

This unexpected N-1 led me deeper still into the Rabbit Hole where I will continue to dwell as there are many intersecting tunnels to explore…

Today’s tunnel connects poor protein digestion (thanks to low stomach acid) to increased Uric Acid. Uric acid, best known for causing Gout, also causes High Blood Pressure, according to Dr Luftig (2 Keto Dudes ref)

I think this is a topic many on this forum might be interested in exploring!

('Jackie P') #2

When I first started eating keto I had been taking Omeprazole for years. I contunued to get acid reflux and believed I couldn’t tolerate fat.
Then I read a Keto thread that explained that the whole point of hydrochloric acid was to metabolize fats!
I stopped my Omeprazole and didn’t have another bout of acid reflux!
Brilliant!

(Doug) #3

Heck yes, Mel. While indeed not all individuals will react the same, can you imagine how many people are out there, eating and drinking basic/caustic/alkaline things and/or on prescriptions to “fight acid”?

#4

And then there’s the thing about how LCHF/keto causes an enzyme system changeover that takes a couple of months. Fortunately getting 90% fat adapted only takes a few weeks for most folks - and it opens up the possibility of aiming for a smaller eating/feasting windowa so as to naturally give the stomach/GI tract a break for sorting itself out and boosting its own regenerations.

Apparently our GI tract is very smart - full of neurons (so now it’s called the enteric nervous system). :brain:

Whether through small eating windows or supplementing with enzyme precursors (like Ginger) or natural acid soothers (like chewing on sweet Fennel seeds after a meal as people from India do) - the enzyme changeover for low carb digestive balance takes just a few months apparently. It’s an ancient balance - so I took encouragement in that whilst navigating some heartburn in my early half-year of my animal products, meat, & fat heavy keto without a bunch o’ carbs getting in the way of things…

(Full Metal KETO AF) #5

I tried quitting omeprazole during my first month of keto and reflux returned after a few days, I think it’s time to try quitting again. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Karen) #6

I use Hydrochloric acid pills with pepsin after every heavy meat meal. What a difference. yes of course

(Janelle) #7

I did the same. Rebound reflux like crazy. I’ve been eating keto 5 months and took myself off Omeprazole again now about 2 weeks ago. Only a few instances of reflux which water or gum chewing has managed. (The first time was hell in comparison.)

I disagree that fat adaptation happens in a few weeks for most. This is based on my own experience and many, many posts here about hunger and lack of weight loss in the first months. I had high hopes I could go off of the PPI after even two months of keto but seems like it’s taken more like 4.5 months for me.

Just kind of goes to the unfortunate fact that some give up too soon.

(Janelle) #8

These kind of help me but I find I don’t even need them now most of the time.

(Carnivore for the win) #9

Took me a few attempts to stop omeprazole as well, over a four month period. I found that slowly reducing it made for an easier transition.

(Carnivore for the win) #10

It took me from month 4 through month 8 of Keto to slowly stop taking omeprazole. It’s definitely a slow process

(Pan Dulce) #11

I am about 8 months in to keto and have been able to get down to one dose each of Omeprazole and ranitidine (which is half of what it was for many years). My food doesn’t seem to digest in a very long time, so I’ve read that might be linked to low stomach acid. All to say…please keep down the rabbit hole (and post)! :rabbit::carrot:

(Justin S) #12

I have also found increased stomach acidity through ACV or things like green olives and pickles will help me out on a particularly protein dense meal like a can of sardines without added mayo or lean sirloin. Found out one day when I just felt like I had an abdomen full of cement after a can of sardines. Drank about 1tbsp ACV in maybe 16oz water with some lime juice and stevia, and I almost instantly started burping the fishiest burps of my life until the feeling completely subsided. It was heaven, lol, tho smelly.

I have not, however, experienced the same sort of relief for a high fat, low protein meal. Although I have heard that higher acid levels are what can trigger a gall bladder flush. Not sure if that is accurate though, as the drink only seems to help with the protein.

Further to that effect, when I tried doubling up the ACV amount to help on a day of particularly bad indigestion, I started to have some major histamine responses, particularly in my sinuses. That plus a few hours of severe diarrhea has led me to cut back on the ACV unless it is absolutely necessary.

Has anyone else had any issues overdoing it with vinegar or other acids in the past? If so, how much were you using and what effects did it have?

(Mel Day) #13

The weird thing with the low stomach acid thing is that many people, like my husband, had no OVERT symptoms such as acid reflux. He did have slow digestion, constipation and a very noisy stomach which we were treating with Magnesium water. My neighbor’s problems were reflux, diarrhea and odd skin rashes and she was on Prilosec right up to the night she tried HCl.

All three of us did the self diagnoses which is: take two HCl before a protein meal. If you don’t feel a warmth in your stomach (it is very obvious) then next protein meal take three HCl caps. Keep adding another pill (up to ten) until you feel ‘the heat’. That number is your tipping point, so your threshold is one less. Example: My husband felt the burn at 4 so he now takes 3. Our neighbor felt the burn at 3 so she takes 2. Its a pretty cool N-1 hack!

My belief is that the extra help absorbing all the nutrients in the great food we are eating will help fix nagging health issues. My husband has had trouble getting his red blood cells back up after a bypass operation even though he is taking iron. But we now understand the Iron, the Folate, the B12, the K2, and even the Magnesium water was not being absorbed fully.

The body is a remarkable symphony, the sounds of which are echoing in my Rabbit Hole!

Those of you who have unsuccessfully tried going of the PPI might try a round of HCl. I think this is one of the reasons taking apple cider vinegar helps so many people. Here’s a link: https://www.shawnmynar.com/could-low-stomach-acid-be-to-blame/

#14

Just the facts as per Phinney & Volek’s research and human physiology. We all have our experiences, and yet there are some pretty consistent things to human physiology once it’s got nutrient density. I stated 90% fat adaptation, not 100%. Phinney & Volek put it conservatively at 80% fat adapted after the first 2-6 weeks. There’s an ongoing process to get to the 100%. But the point is that the fat-adapted physiology is an ancient one and the brain loves to run on fat and does so rather well within a few weeks.

It’s the last 10-20% margin of adaptation that can take some more months. Some folks aren’t 100% fat adapted for 6 months (my experience, and that of many midlife females) and a very small minority of very metabolically deranged folks make take a year or two to reach 100%.

Apparently the symptoms and struggles during early LCHF/keto past the first 2-6 weeks are hugely about not enough salt/minerals during the transition. It’s also a time of pretty major detoxification and functional restoration for a lot of folks who are coming off of decades of sugar addiction and suppressive medications - and whose microbiomes are dramatically restoring while burning body fat which contains old toxins. Detoxification symptoms involve weird temporary headaches, head drainage/watery eyes, metallic taste in the mouth, coated tongue, skin rashes and the like.

(Bunny) #15

I love fennel seeds those are my most favorite seed of all as far as flavor and what I like to do is mix it with ground pork sausage! It gives this strange authentic Italian sausage aroma and taste (OMG! to die for!) that cannot be matched by anyone not using it, it is almost magical or mysterious (almost evil) which can be used for spaghetti or pizza. Don’t believe me, try it?

If only pizza restaurants would put this on their pizza or meat balls for spaghetti they would up their sales of their pizza and would not be able to keep up with the demand! (I kid you not)

#16

Oh yes! :sparkles:

And, Fennel seeds (along with red pepper flakes) are a key ingredient in traditional Italian sausage, and that’s why having a base saute oil with fennel seeds and red pepper flakes will make any italian sort of dish instantly divine in a mediterranean way - it smells and tastes great! Hot-sweet, yum~!

I agree - if more pizza places incorporated Fennel seeds people would love it. Instead, a lot of them add sugar to their sauces.

(Mel Day) #17

Hey SlowBurn,
Can’t get into the taste of fennel though I must say Richard Morris’s podcast describing Fennel salad made me WISH I liked them!

#18

I’m very happy to read this. I haven’t done a search here yet but I was about to when this thread appeared on the new posts list.

I have been experiencing heavy heartburn the last few days and was getting a little concerned because it isn’t a common occurrence with me. I tend to try to work through issues without modern medicine if I can and hadn’t used any antacids but it was getting irritating. I had completely forgotten about wholesome foods that can help with this problem and I will incorporate these natural ingredients to help reduce the effects of the acid.

(Mel Day) #19

Justin, the production of stomach acid often decreases with age.The way I understand it is: Stomach Acid is released to help digest protein AND TO STIMULATE THE RELEASE OF ENZYMES. Different enzymes digest the carbs and the fats. It could be that you just need enzymes. Anyway the easiest way to determine if stomach acid is low is to eat a lot of meat and take an HCl pill. If you don’t feel a warming in your stomach, take another until you do. The warmth means you hit your limit. Next protien meal back off one. Some need 8 pills, some need one and some do just fine with a shot of cider vinegar.

(Edith) #20

I’ve read, maybe in “The Salt Fix” that the chloride part of sodium chloride is needed to produce the hydrochloric acid in our stomachs. Maybe the years of being told to keep our salt intake low has contributed to the epidemic of heartburn and indigestion by not allowing us to produce enough stomach acid, (along with eating too many carbs, of course.)